Church of Scientology Warning

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by seewhatisunseen, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. seewhatisunseen macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    #1
    Information that details what goes on behind the scenes at the Church of Scientology:

    http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html This famous 1991 Time Magazine article critical of Scientology reveals how the "Church" is the equivalent of the mafia disguised as a religion. Oppose them and you are fair game for harassment and maybe even a frivolous lawsuit.

    http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html Things they don't want you to know.

    http://www.xenu-city.net/ How they occupy downtown Clearwater, and monitor the area with over 100 different video cameras.

    http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Cu...ths_and_practices/scientology/opposing_views/ - a large list of Internet sites opposed to the cult.
     
  2. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    #2
    Lol.


    I would just like to first say that I am a active Scientologist, and I would just like to clear a couple things up.

    1. We are not a cult in the sense that we do not brainwash you or force you to do anything. Seriously, you don't have to believe in any god or anything if you don't want to. It is all your choice, and the organization/religion is there to help people.

    2. Some people seem to think it is a money scam, but it really isn't. Yes--the study materials for the religion cost money, but you are paying for more than just a book and the results are phenomenal.

    3. The articles you linked to are really irrelevant. They seem suspicious, but their validity can't be proven, and I really can't see how the stuff in them would be of any use to Scientology in general. It is nice that you have an open mind, but if you really want to get the real scoop on the religion in general I suggest you go to one of the churches before you make up your mind.

    I'm open to questions, but no flaming, plz.

    ;)
     
  3. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #3
    according to german and austrian courts scientology is not a church and not allowed to claim that they are a church...
    there were even a decision where the conclusion is that it is a "profit orientated company"

    but they are allowed to called themselves "scientology-church association"
     
  4. abc123 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    #4
    what do all churches (apart from the church of scientology) have in common?
    they will help and include people regardless of their financial situation.

    i don't mean to say that scientology has no good points but that money is what really sets it apart from other churches. my mum and i went and had a look around once just to see what it was all about. the girl that showed us around was really nice but it was all a bit too creepy for me (i find regular churches creepy also). she also spent a lot of time scoffing at modern medicine and drugs which was kind of awkward being that my mother is a doctor.
    it certainly isn't for everyone but i don't see why people get so worked up opposing it.
     
  5. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #5
    Takao: The IRS did a study and found that Scientology was a legit religion.
    ABC: You don't need money to get help, the people working at the church will gladly explain everything, help you get started and give you some insight. Yes, it is a little creepy, (even for me), when I go to church. I am a relatively new member and I am still not completely used to it. The point is: things that are unfamiliar take time getting used to, and Scientology is here to help--not to do anything else.
     
  6. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #6
    Just for further reference...

    http://www.xenu.net/

    And I have researched and visted

    Also read Hubbard's books:
    Dianetics
    Scientology
    Self-Analysis
     
  7. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #7
    Wow, aren't you credible.

    I am gonna try to stop posting in this this thread now, but people, please. Use your own sense of judgment and have a wonderful day! :)

    Later! :)

    Edit: After having read some of the stuff on that website, it is completely bogus. If you really want to know more about scientology you can either PM me or IM me at "itsroberthello" (AIM). For a website to check out, http://www.scientology.org
     
  8. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #8
    I've never heard anyone who attends Church through personal choice describe it as 'creepy'. If it is 'creepy' then that is very, very worrying.

    Anyway, I don't really know anything about the Church of Scientology or what goes on behind it's closed doors, although I'd be most surprised if it's as corrupt as what goes on within the Vatican and the like.
     
  9. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #9
    in germany,austria,switzerland it is _not_
    in germany it is monitored by the Bundes-Verfassungsschutz ("constitution protection service") in germany because of "threat against national security"
    :rolleyes:
    and according to independent investigations in 2002 by the law faculty of the university munich further court cases about "Volksverhetzung" "creation of an organized criminal organisation" would be valid

    in switzerland it is rated as "confidence-unworthy destructive cult"...

    really sounds like a "legit religion"
    scientology won't get near the status of a religion in the next time.... ;)
     
  10. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #10
    To the people in this thread that are scienlogists, you haven't even said what the religion is about in your own words. You have just refered to other texts. But if you want people to understand your religion (and want to be a part of it), then you need to explain in your own words, what it is about, what is so good about it and what you get out of it, that you couldn't get anywhere else.

    If you can't explain in your own words what it is about/what is so good about it, then that ether means you can see problems with it and you don't want to let others know what those problems are or you don't even know what your religion is about. ;)
     
  11. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #11
    Ok. I will try to make this post a good one.

    Scientology is good because not only will it bring out the best of your ability, but it will also prepare you for life and lead you to happiness. And it works.

    The "Xenu" website is complete BS, as are basically all of the anti-Scientology websites.

    There are tons of anti-mac websites, and we all know how right they are, eh? :rolleyes:

    It's the same thing for scientology.

    And once again people, if you have ANY questions just contact me. (CONTACT ME DIRECTLY. Not in this thread. I prefer AIM. ("itsroberthello"))
     
  12. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #12
    It seems to me, Phobophobia, that you only further the belief in the cult status of Scientology by refusing to do so much as summarize the basic ideals here. Any religious person could surely provide a short (few paragaphs or less) summary of their beliefs.

    Your quote:

    "Scientology is good because not only will it bring out the best of your ability, but it will also prepare you for life and lead you to happiness. And it works."

    says nothing. Your insistence that you be contacted privately suggests a need to indoctrinate people individually.

    Surely, if this is a religion and not just a self-aggrandizing cult started by a bad sci-fi hack, you can provide us with the basic principles of your belief.

    I am willing to give you an opportunity. But I need to see something here, in public, else I will simply reaffirm my current belief that Scientology has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
     
  13. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #13
    Hi! :)
    If you wish to learn why and/or how Scientology will make your life better and help you or whoever utilizes it you can check out some of L. Ron Hubbard's books. Try "Dianetics". That's my favorite, and it is usually a good starting point. I am not going to explain the intricacies of the religion. Not only would it be hard to type, long, and very confusing to most people due to the introduction of several unfamiliar words, but most people would probably just nitpick through it looking for things they can label negatively.

    Once again, jsw, if you, or anyone wants to know the specifics of the religion you can consult the books written by the "hack", L. Ron Hubbard, talk to a member of the church or consult me directly at "itsroberthello" on AIM.

    Continue having a great day! :D
     
  14. KingSleaze macrumors 6502

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    Feb 24, 2004
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    So. Cal
    #14
    Just because he started it as a bar bet?
     
  15. pimentoLoaf macrumors 68000

    pimentoLoaf

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    Dec 30, 2001
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    The SimCity Deli
    #15
    If anyone would like to compare CoS to, say, Judaism, please take a few hours to look at Aish.com, which is a very uplifting experience (IMHO).
     
  16. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #16
    That is merely a myth. It never really happened. Although, he did receive a lot of encouragement to spread the word about his findings. Once "Dianetics" came out, people were so interested with what he found from his research (still in print) that they camped outside his house to find out more.
     
  17. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #17
    Pretty cool.

    Nice to see a religion where you can learn all you'd like, then become a practicing member, for free.

    Oh, wait... that's true of most religions.
     
  18. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

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    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #18
    Well all you are doing is proving my point. If you can find too many problems with something, then it is generally not worth doing. You may be happy with that type of religion, but I am not.

    So I will wish you a happy life with your chosen religion.
     
  19. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #19
    I used to like those troll toys a while back, you know, the ones with the weird hair? If someone collected them, you could say they were trolling. If someone was being very open about troll collecting, you could say they were flaming troll collectors. They had their own club, and members were banned if the administration felt it was necessary.

    Happy Fathers' day!
     
  20. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    Mar 16, 2004
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    Andover, MA
    #20
    I truly appreciate your good attitude. I'm sure that you deal with this sort of thing constantly. I certainly respect your right to believe as you choose.

    My reference to Hubbard as a "hack" comes from having read some of his sci-fi when I was younger. As far as that writing is concerned, well, it's not top-notch. Stunningly verbose, but not that great. My opinion. It has no impact on any arguments concerning the viability of Scientology, of course.

    Still, I stand by my opinion that a religion should be easily summarized in a few paragraphs in a public forum. I'm sure we could look up any "unfamiliar" words. Also, I'd assume any religion would, by definition, require a belief in one or more gods. AFAIK, Scientology doesn't.
     
  21. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #21
    Sorry, but for the interest of sincere discussion I will reply here.

    The same could be said about Steven Covey's Seven Habits. It too tries to bring out the best ability of the individual. And it too prepares you for your life, both personal and business. And in the end happiness. And it too works, so well that Franklin bought the rights I believe.

    Do wish you would expand a bit more. Not all of us prone to condemn. It is hard for those that have a basis in other churches to see past the "money" aspect of the Church of Scientology.

    Yes,, other churches do "demand" or "ask" for "money" to support itself. Though most of the churches that i have investigated do not require to be paid for training in the ideology of that church. Don't mean to offend, but that is the way it appears.

    Sincerely, what about those that for what ever reason can not afford the materials? Regardless whether it is someone earning minimum wage, or someone earning six figures - there may be obligations that out weigh contributions to the church.

    In your follow-up to jsw:

    I can understand your comments. But that is the reason that many have with the Church of Scientology. No one seems to be willing to discuss it openly in forums like this. I can understand to a degree, since many question it.

    Though I would assume many others here would be willing to try and give a Readers Digest version of the main points. Even Muslims and Islamics would be willing to try and provide provide a basic insight.
     
  22. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    #22
    You could find problems, or you could find a great way to improve your life. It just depends on what you are looking for. I never said that there were any problems with the fundamentals and beliefs of the religion. I just implied you be able to find problems--since you are looking for them. :D

    Continue with the great dayness
     
  23. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #23
    Wow. Interesting way to convince people to look into your belief system.

    My point that most religions do not require buy-in is true and it is certainly a valid post for the community forum.

    Please do not resort to implied threats about being banned.
     
  24. Phobophobia macrumors 6502

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    Dec 1, 2003
    #24
    Scientology is a religion that, when it is applied effectively, will lead you to a life of happiness, freedom, ability and abundance. Is that good enough? Isn't that worth more than money?. Is that all you--being a MAC USER, even--can think about? Money? People need to be paid for their services. That is why there is costs to Scientology. Not because it is a money scam.

    If that offended you at all, it wasn't on purpose.

    Make the best of your day and enjoy it.
     
  25. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #25
    The later two may define the Church of Scientology.

    The fact they may not (I am not sure) have a "spiritual leader" that is alive, does not matter. I sometimes worry about religions that have spiritual leaders that are alive that are supposed to communicate the word of God (or be guided by) to their members.
     

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