Cincinnati Cop Beating

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by tomf87, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. tomf87 macrumors 65816

    tomf87

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    #1
    http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/2676849/detail.html

    It bothers me that the forum on our local news station is filled with people hating each other.

    I have black, pakistani (sp?), indian, and white friends, but if one of them took a swing at a police officer, then I would expect the police to go back at them. The same applies to myself, so I would never do that.

    I mean, if a police officer responds to a location where you are at, do you call him names (watch the video.. he says something like "Little Debbie, white boy, redneck") and then take a swing while stating "My momma taught me this"? I think right there defines the problem. Parents need to step up to the plate, and become a parent, not just a biological father or mother. Teach your children to listen to authority, and that extends even into the school systems, but I won't go there.

    If I were in that situation (the victim's), I think I would have stopped when the officer said to, and follow further directions. How hard is that? Even still, he was just acting weird, even the firefighters' transmission was he was "a nuisance". So I doubt the police were going to arrest him. They may have told him to just go home, or have him transported to a hospital to be checked out by a physician. As always, it will take time to sort through all the tapes and audio transmissions to get a full view, but the preliminary view is that the gentleman should have obeyed the officers' commands.

    But evidently, he had something to hide or something to run for, so he took a swing to get an advantage. You get what you ask for.
     
  2. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    #2
    i think the cops are justified. you cant have 400lbs of weight that cant feel pain because it is doped up on PCP, that is swinging at you and stealing your baton, and not have to defend yourself with force.
     
  3. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #3
    It seems from what I can tell from here that people in Cincinnati are reacting differently to this incident than those in the past. I don't think anyone claims that police officers cannot respond with force when there is a legitimate threat. tomf87, you're a lot closer to the situation than what sources I can get from the national news, is that a accurate read on the response to this death?
     
  4. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #4
    normally i'm no friend of the cops. but screw coke, this guy was on PCP, all bets are off. i've seen people on dust rages that are unbelievable. to be completely candid, i accidently did a PCP-laced blunt a few years ago, it was not a shining moment in human history. luckily i'm a mellow guy, but i felt like i could knock down walls. nothing made sense... yeah, i could see someone on a PCP rage having to be subdued in such a way. i would have rather that than hurt someone, then again i'm not the kind of person to do PCP intentionally...

    plus it sounds like there was some difficulty in keeping the ambulance around... which would have been handy right about then...

    pnw
     
  5. McCord9 Suspended

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Location:
    New York City
    #5
    Don't do drugs!

    This guy was on coke and PCP (angeldust). He also had an enlarged heart. The Cops have to be able to defend themselves, and from what is shown on the tape they asked the man to comply again and again and he just didn't listen. Now I do wish we had some better non-leathal weaponry such as those net guns, but the cops must be able to defend themselves inorder to do their job properly. This was not a case of brutality at all.
     
  6. TimDaddy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Location:
    Versailles, KY (and that's pronounced Vurr-sales)
    #6
    Overall, the Cincinatti police (and Louisville) have a very shady history, but it looked like they did the best they could in this case.
     
  7. cr2sh macrumors 68030

    cr2sh

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Location:
    downtown
    #7
    The guy was acting crazy and then attacked a cop... yeh, what was the question?

    Cinci is a hotbed of racial tension, lets hope this doesnt cause more problems but I'm not too optimistic. With this and the Columbus 270 Sniper.. Ohio gettin a lot of press lately.

    Also, Dayton was named the 7th most dangerous city in the nation (right behind Compton!)
     
  8. Vilacr macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    #8
    The use of force to subdue a suspect is one thing, but to beat a man to death is another. They killed this guy, there is no justification on that.
     
  9. McCord9 Suspended

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Location:
    New York City
    #9
    Don't say thigns which aren't true....

    You have no right to say that the man in question died as a result of the officers using force to subdue him. As of yet, there is no autopsy so please keep to the facts and don't allege that the officers killed him unless you have proof.
     
  10. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #10
    given the medical issues with the enlarged heart, the drugs and his obesity - all that violence would not have helped the situation at all. His reaction to the cops and his efforts to resist were the most likely cause of his death. Its just unfortunate that the beating was involved.

    D
     
  11. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    #11
    a law enforcement officer has a legal right to defend himself when a 400lb man that isnt feeling pain and feels like he can take on anything and everything, and wants a piece of you. The cops are justified. Besides, the man died of the heart problems apparently -- not the baton thing.
     
  12. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Location:
    Binghamton
    #12
    A lot of interesting information is now coming out about this incident....

    Here' you'll notice the paramedics (in the fire truck), who originally called the police in the first place because the guy was being beligerant after they answered the call about a man sleeping on the lawn of White Castle, actually leave while the struggle was going on. The guy died at the hospital, not on the scene.

    There's video out there from the White Castle security video that first shows the guy acting like a crazy person inside the White Castle, then later showing him charge a police officer from several feet away while the police officer's tape was turned off.

    The reason the tape goes off when the officer pulled in to the lot is due to a battery saving feature on the camera. The camera shuts off when the car turned off and can be reactivated by remote control from the officer's chest. This is done by the officer right after the guy charges him. But we do get to see the WC video that shows what the cops car video doesn't show.

    Another interesting this is that in one of the videos you see the cops hitting the guy on his side and his legs. If they really wanted to do damage they would have targeted his head.

    It's unforunate that this guy died, but due to the circumstances it's unfair to blame the police for his death.
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #13
    The guy took a swing at a cop. What did he think would happen? I guess he wasn't thinking, but such are the consequences of using drugs like PCP and cocaine.

    The use of force is never a pretty sight, justified or not. Graphic video of a beating is no reason in and of itself to cry foul at the cops.

    I hear a lot of activists complaining that there is 1+ minutes of tape missing, but the only thing that could justify the big guy resisting arrest is if the cops told him they were going to kill him or something like that. Otherwise, do what the cop says!
     
  14. tomf87 thread starter macrumors 65816

    tomf87

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    #14
    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks people should respect authority.

    I guess the Cincinnati population immediately wants to go after the police, because of the police shooting an unarmed suspect in April 2001. Even then, the guy wasn't obeying police orders, ran from them into a dark alley, and then didn't obey them again.

    I know a few bad apples can spoil the whole thing, but you really have to look at a case-by-case basis. Even I am wondering why the fire department personnel left the scene, as I am a former firefighter/EMT. If the EMS personnel saw the person struggling, surely they would have thought they would need to check him out before they took him away.
     
  15. 1macker1 macrumors 65816

    1macker1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Location:
    A Higher Level
    #15
    Just because someone swings on a cop doesn't mean they then have the right to kill. Lethal force isnt suppose to be used unless the cops life is in immediate danger. A unarmed man/woman shouldn't lose his life, no matter how ignorant the situations may be.
     
  16. krimson macrumors 65816

    krimson

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Location:
    Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
    #16
    i've seen a guy on dust punch through a concrete cinderblock wall, and then jump over a 6' wood fence with just a small hand push, land 10' below the fence, break a foot AND kept running for 2 blocks before 6, count'm 6 people tackled him and held him for the police, who needed 4 large officers (think Steve on Jerry Springer) to get him into the car. There he kicked out the metal barrier between the front and back seats of the patrol car, so they had to get the van to take him to jail, hog tied.

    I'd say that the PCP was justification enough to use force. There isn't a good way for the cops to know that he had heart problems. And it isn't known at this time what actually caused his death.. his heart may have just given out from drugs.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #17
    No they don't have a license to kill, but they do have the right to respond with force. If that force ends up killing a guy with pre-existing conditions, well he should have thought about that before he resisted arrest.

    Even unarmed, I could still kill a person in hand to hand combat. Just because you are unarmed doesn't mean you can't still do serious harm to another person (think of trying to arrest an unarmed, but resisting Bruce Lee.)
     
  18. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland.
    #18
    This isn't directly related, but I am curious.

    If you stumbled across one or more policemen who were using unnecessary force on someone who wasn't resisting arrest, what would you do? Do nothing? Call the police? (ha!). Try and pull the police off him? (very, very risky).

    I don't know about the US, but here (Ireland) I doubt the courts would have any sympathy for someone who laid hands on a policeman, regardless of the situation.
     
  19. tomf87 thread starter macrumors 65816

    tomf87

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    #19
    You don't know that the force they used was lethal. Yes, the man died, but it has not been proven yet that their actions led to his death.

    At 1:30pm Eastern Time, the coroner is going to release to the public what actually caused his death. And in Cincinnati, if you reach for an officers' weapons (that includes batons), they have a right to use greater force, including lethal force, to regain control of the situation.
     
  20. tomf87 thread starter macrumors 65816

    tomf87

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    #20
    Well, not being an officer nor going through their training, when is the force deemed excessive? To civilians, any force used looks like human cruelty. However, if I saw this in person, I doubt I would have done anything, because he was grabbing at their weapons, swinging at them, and refusing to give up.

    That's a very good question.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #22
    Yes, but that doesn't mean the force was excessive.
     
  22. bitfactory macrumors 6502

    bitfactory

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #23
    i live in cincy - and knew that at soon as the Coroner said that - a whole gaggle of uninformed people would freak without reading the rest of what the Coroner said "homicide does NOT mean excessive force was used - it just means that the struggle contributed to his death"

    a) there would be no struggle if he hadn't attacked the cops

    b) the cops wouldn't have been called if he wouldn't have smoked the 'fry-sticks,' was high on cocaine AND Angel Dust

    c) when a cop tells you to relax and tell them what's going on - you don't say "White boy redneck" and attack them

    its unfortunate that he died - but he is squarely to blame for it - overweight + heart disease + pcp + cocaine + methanol + punching a cop = dumb.

    all the media coverage is bull**** - as is all the 'racial tension' - there is very little... the only people who stir the pot here are faux black leaders looking for press and some $.
     
  23. McCord9 Suspended

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Location:
    New York City
    #24
    Homicide?

    I'm sorry Ambrose Chapel but I think you meant to say it is being INVESTIGATED as a homicide. If it was a homicide there would have been a trial already. Don't forget it's innocent until proven guilty.
     
  24. Ambrose Chapel macrumors 65816

    Ambrose Chapel

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    #25
    erm...


     

Share This Page