CNN Polls / Lack of historical knowledge

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by idkew, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #1
    So, I look at CNN.com on a daily basis usually. Today's poll is "Are the U.S. and coalition casualty figures in Iraq higher than you expected?"

    Now, this really bothers me that most people believe there has been more than expected casualties. I can only hope people have voted this way because they thought that Iraq would be an "easy out". Otherwise, people need to read more history.

    This poll was not about whether you believe we should be there or not, so lets try and keep that out of this thread. What I am ranting about is the lack of historical knowledge most americans, and probably other people, contain.

    Is it really that obscure that the taking of Berlin took the lives of 100,000 russians? Do people just try to forget this? Yes, we have lost some people in the occupation of Iraq, but this is war folks, and unfortunately, in war, people die.

    The world has lost 500 or so coalition troops. I for one, think this is a low number, and I am happy about how low casualties have been. It could be a lot worse. I am not happy that people have had to die, but if this will happen, the lower the number, the better.

    I just wish that the media, and stupid americans would realize that this occupation and transfer of power is not an easy task to accomplish. It seems everyone is calling for a miracle, and they seem astonished that no miracle has occurred.

    We are entering the age of decadence. Soon will be the fall, not because of others, but because of our stupid citizens.
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    expectations were not properly managed. i think the poll results are a direct result of bush et. al. saying the iraqis would be welcoming, w/ flowers even.

    not _everyone_ bought that, of course. i'm surprised that the number of american dead is as low as it is. of course, once you count casualties (i'm not certain the pentagon is publishing that number), then it starts looking like a real war.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    Let us also not forget Bush's aircraft carrier stunt. If the American people are confused about the Iraq occupation, its purposes, its justification, its timeline, and how much it will cost in dollars and lives, we can point the boney finger at the White House for sowing the seeds of that confusion, and doing it purposefully. At the same time we might ask ourselves how a majority of the American people came to believe that Saddam was responsible for 9-11.
     
  4. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #4
    :)

    I guess the thought never crossed my mind to *trust* the government.
     
  5. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #5
    i have to agree on your post .. many people just have forgotten how terrible war can get:
    "the european hiroshima"

    "3,907 tons of bombs were dropped. Out of 28,410 houses in the inner city of Dresden, 24,866 were destroyed. An area of 15 square kilometers was totally destroyed, among that: 14,000 homes, 72 schools, 22 hospitals, 19 churches, 5 theaters, 50 bank and insurance companies, 31 department stores, 31 large hotels, and 62 administration buildings"

    and for losses:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Ypres
     
  6. kgarner macrumors 68000

    kgarner

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    #6
    I think a lot of it stems from the media over-stating the precision of our weapons. They talk about "surgical strikes" and people think that we are some kind of military tornado. Able to destroy one building and leaving the other completely untouched. While our weapons are getting more and more precise, there is always going to be casualties in war, and this war has been very light in that department.
     
  7. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Not a whole lot of things to destroy over in the Middle East. :p

    So we build instead. :eek:
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    yeah, not much at all. let's put in some strip malls.
     
  9. diamond geezer macrumors regular

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    #9
    Russians in WW2?

    But I thought the US single handedly saved the World! that certainly tends to be the Hollywood portrayal.

    I've just got back from London, there's a bit of a anger over the new "fact based" Tom Cruise movie, about a US pilot that flew in the Battle of Britain.
    Old fliers are worried that it will show the "rag-tag" group of Yanks saving England.

    The reality is that the pilot Cruise plays, had zero kills before he was shot down, I wonder if that's how the movie will play out.

    Apart from U-571, It's generally Mel Gobson movies that under the guise of fact have twisted the truth, for a bit of Brit-bashing (The Patriot & the Scottish movie, whose name eludes me).
     
  10. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #10
    Braveheart maybe?


    anyway- if you believe what is in hollywood movies, you have no right to be mad that you were misled. these movies are made for entertainment, not education. facts are changed to make the movie more entertaining.

    one more reason we are in our age of decadence. we get our "history" from pop culture.
     
  11. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #11
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    Wow, more blatant racism from Frohickey... Nice going. How about some more of those French jokes? Got any about Jews?
     
  13. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Racism? You have to do better than that. Please counter arguments with other argument and not personal attacks.

    As for French jokes and Jewish jokes, you have the power of the Internet at your fingertips, go find your own jokes. :p

    Okay, here are a few, for you Google-impaired folks.
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #14
    nice pictures zimv20: i really hope the things plundered from the baghdad museum get found or are brought back
    (and yeah and hope when the country is peacefull they even bring back the original parts of the ishtar gate and other historic elements which are in london/berlin since more than 80 years now)

    oh just to remind you it could be worse:
    we all can be happy that the US Air Force doesn't have the guys which make the maps for CNN to be responsible for their cruise missiles
     

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  15. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #15

    what about the french-jew jokes?
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    Yup, all sand and tents and camels. No suburbs or streets or anything like a civilisation.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    Lol, sorry did I hurt your feeling? :(

    And come off it, you've said more than a few completely racially insensitive things around here. Insinuating that MIddle Easterners have nothing of value to blow up is just another in a long line of these kinds of things from you. :mad:
     
  18. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Never said they have nothing of value. Said that there is not many.
    Racially insensitive... if a factual comment is racially insensitive, just the basis of it being fact should mandate that it be said. Racially insensitive is inconsequential. Facts are supreme.

    With the amount of natural resources under the sands, and the wealth it brings, why is the ME still considered part of the 3rd world? Maybe extra-religious people are just not that fond of worldly conveniences.
     
  19. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #19
    You said there was 'not a whole lot of things to destroy' over there. That is either total ignorance of their rich cultural heritage, or it is racist BS. Which do you plead?

    Sure, if what you said was even close to accurate. But it wasn't. Of course maybe you could 'prove' there is nothing there! :eek: What do you think, the Middle East is all sand and camels? It's not like the Tigris and Euphrates valley was the cradle of civilization or anything. No, they don't have anything over there to destroy, do they?

    Dunno. Go ask Jim Baker or Pat Robertson. Maybe they can enlighten you here.
     
  20. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Yes. Rich cultural heritage. Since the late 600AD. After 14 centuries, you would expect some type of cultural heritage. They were responsible for saving a lot of christian works by translating them into Arabic. Baghdad is the site of the 'college of translation'.[/url[ These are all past accomplishments, and contributed to the world as a whole. But the decendants of these people have not contributed as much as their ancestors.

    On the one hand, you seem to support arabic culture with lot of religious extremists. On the other hand, you seem to denigrate western culture with a few religious extremists. Do you support state religion, as Osama/al qaeda and the taliban do?

    Weird. Saw a "Defend Abortion Rights" poster in the Wash,DC anti-Iraq war protest. Abortions are forbidden by Sharia law.

    A little consistency would be nice.
     
  21. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I heard somewhere that the Madrassas (sp?) religious schools are where all of these extremist teachings are put forth to the students. Since these schools are free, while universities that teach math/science/etc cost money, most poor muslim parents send their children to these religious schools instead.

    Sounds like the Arab world needs an accreditation body for all schools of higher learning. Maybe they can pattern it after the federal "Leave no child behind" program. :p
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  23. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #23
    was new york,berlin,london or paris mentioned in the bible ?
    nope thats the middle east, as example babylon is mention multiply times

    was the US the birth place of 3+ world-wide-religions ?
    surprise,surprise ! it's the middle east !!

    who used as first written language _without_ symbols ? and where ?
    sumerians, and they lived where right between euphrat and tigris,now iraq

    first written laws ?
    middle east, "Codex hammurabi" ~1500 before christ in ...babylon (i guess you know the sentence: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

    first use of iron ?
    again the middle east, Hethits in norther iraq,turkey

    who decides what has value and what has not ? you ?

    america was discovered 1492 by accident (well the native americans where there but we all know what happend to them) that's 512 years
    the USA exist since 1776..that's 228 years

    the ishtar gate in babylon is 2566 years old
    2566 years ago most ancestors from US citizents lived in northern or eastern europe, wearing furs,fighting bears and living in tents (generalizing and over dramatic, but i guess correct for most people with indo-germanic roots)

    and 600 anno domine (which translate into "year of the lord"
    our ancestors are still wearing furs(and finally the first boots),fighting not only bears but each others (but with better weapons of course) and finally starting to build real houses from stone (when we are not fighting those evil terrorist-bears of course)
    ...

    just because many things are lying in ruins or are old doesn't mean it hasn't any value or are not a culture heritage...

    i can find more _private_ houses here that are older than the USA (1776) in 15 minutes than i have fingers to count them
    give me 1 hour and i do the same with houses older than 500 years
    give me 1 hour and a car and i show you ruins of brigantium (roman city founded in the fur-wearing days) and roman roads 4 times older than the USA , 5-6 castles (ruins sadly) of the local knights and everything in 10-20 miles distance (and if you want i can show you the one of the first fully electrofied house from the 19th century, one of the first _long_ telephone lines of europe, and some of the first hydro-electric powerplants)

    and where do i live ? someplace where lot of important things happend in the past ? near a big urban area ?
    no i'm living in a small town with 40.000 people, 3 20.000 people neighbour towns, and 4-5 5000 people towns
    the highest buildings are churches,with enourmous 50-75 meter for the towers

    just imagine a american suburban region with less cars (hardly SUVs),better train and bus system,sometimes cattle on the streets, add more olderand different looking houses, add some non air-polluting industrie complexes, a shopping mall & cinema and tadaaa ! extremly boring city where nothing exiting happens...

    throw a stone in the middle east .. dig out a 10 meter hole in the ground and i bet you find something historical interesting thing (and watch out when throwing the stone .. you might start some wars ;) )

    offtopic i think i start a thread in the pictures section about "where do MR-members live (with pictures)"
     
  24. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Nope. You don't support state religion, at least, I don't think you would. I also don't think you support banning abortions, or the woman's right to choose. But it does seem that you are supporting a group that supports state religion and banning abortions.

    Actually, the only contempt I have are for cultures that have a strong desire to kill me, and annihilate my culture.
     
  25. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    And Babylon hasn't changed a bit since Biblical times. ;)
     

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