Cognitive Dissonance- Obamacare

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    Many Americans oppose Obamacare and want it repealed, but at the same time, most Americans strongly support most of the law's individual provisions. How does this seeming contradiction make sense? How can some people be so damn ignorant?

    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care-holdouts-uninsured-resisting-obamacare-8C11338371
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

    ohbrilliance

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    #2
    One moron doesn't (necessarily) represent the country.
     
  3. thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #3

    Well, I quoted 2 morons and the polls that show many opposed to Obamacare while support for individual parts of the law get approvals in the 60-70% range.

    IMO, negative campaigning, identify politics and misinformation campaigns (remember death panels, IRS lies etc.) have been effective in making people oppose the law without knowing the facts of the law.
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    ohbrilliance

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    #4
    I can completely empathise with you. Tony Abbott was recently elected here on a campaign of lies and misinformation that the electorate fell for.
     
  5. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

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    #5
    You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can fool those Americans looking to a fictional past rather than to the future just about any ol' time.
     
  6. jnpy!$4g3cwk, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013

    macrumors 6502a

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #6
    Well, it is brilliant politics. At the expense of the entire country. By focusing on Obamacare you get the racist 18% to salivate every single time. By dragging in the budget and debt ceiling, you create what could wind up as a national emergency, forcing everyone's attention on these three issues, and only these three issues.

    And, by doing so, you completely take the momentum out of what could have been a very successful honeymoon period of a President who won by a mile, and who could have made major progress on immigration reform, gun control, the environment, and rising inequality.
     
  7. macrumors G3

    Huntn

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    #7
    They will never admit it, but it's all about political power. This kind of health care initiative has been embraced by Republicans until a Democrat tries to move on it. They (GOP) just can't stand it because it represents a loss of power/control.
     
  8. macrumors 68000

    Happybunny

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    #8
    I also think the fact that he is BLACK, does have a lot to do with the hate.:(
     
  9. Huntn, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013

    macrumors G3

    Huntn

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    #9
    I agree this is part of the equation for the racist element of the GOP.
     
  10. macrumors 68040

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    #10
    No surprise to me. I bet many of those who rally at Tea Party events were one of those who clogged up the healthcare site on day one looking to get covered.
     
  11. macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Americans have spent their lives learning to mistrust the institution, the very idea of healthcare. More of something that really doesn't reform it, is a tough pill to swallow. Hopefully this is a transitional step to something better.
     
  12. macrumors 603

    Tomorrow

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    That doesn't really mean much, truthfully. I support the provisions requiring plans to cover preexisting conditions, but I don't support requiring employers to provide coverage, nor do I support making some people pay more so that others can pay less or not at all.

    As a whole, I don't support the law; not that I believe there aren't good elements to it.
     
  13. macrumors G3

    Huntn

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    #13
    In this case, moving forward is far from ideal, but it is move forward or remain forever static. This what the GOP prefers, the status quo, especially if it is an initiate pushed by a Democrat President.
     
  14. thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #14
    98% of employers with 50+ employees already provide healthcare to their employees. This isn't some radical change of thought on how we deliver healthcare. As for paying more, we already pay ridiculous prices because we are already paying for those without insurance. The idea behind the individual mandate (no more freeloaders) is to get these people medical care outside the emergency room which will lower costs for all.
     
  15. macrumors 603

    Tomorrow

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    And by "all" you mean "some."

    I can't compare for myself, because I changed jobs at the end of September, but my premiums at my old job were set to rise a little over 60% from this year to next, and my wife's premiums are going up just under 50%. Coverage in my case would have stayed the same, while her deductibles were set to rise. Open letters from both her employer and my former employer directly attributed the changes to the ACA. How exactly does that lower our costs?

    In any event, it doesn't change that fact that it's entirely reasonable and plausible to find certain aspects of the ACA agreeable, without agreeing with the entire piece of legislation.
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #16
    Since we're swapping anecdotes ...

    My employee contribution to my healthcare costs dropped 100%. Seriously. Zero.

    Was that due to Obamacare? I doubt it. Probably has more to do with what my union was able to negotiate with the healthcare provider.

    However, I'd likewise question what your costs had to do with Obamacare. I think in general we see prices rise or fall and attribute those fluctuations to the most convenient cause, in this case Obamacare, when the real causes have little, if anything to do with it.
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    Try this version:
    "The idea behind the individual mandate (no more freeloaders) is to get these people medical care outside the emergency room which will reduce the rate of increase for all. Yes, all."

    Your premiums were going up before the ACA. Your premiums would have continued to go up without the ACA. That your premiums are going up with the ACA is not because of the ACA. Nor are car prices and house prices going up because of the ACA. The ACA doesn't intend for everybody's costs to go down, but it's intended to make the rate of increase something reasonable, with overall prices that are affordable.
     
  18. macrumors 603

    Tomorrow

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    I doubt it, since they stayed the same last year and went down the year before that.

    Well, yes, it is. Our premiums are rising because of the additional coverage we don't need, but the ACA requires the insurance company to provide. Things like coverage for preexisting conditions (not applicable in my family). Things like 25-year-old children (again, not applicable in my family).

    It's really simple, economically speaking - you really can't expect to get something for nothing.

    The way insurance works - whether health insurance, car insurance, or whatever - is that the total amount collected in premiums has to exceed the total amount of benefits paid, or the financial backing doesn't work. No company would be able to stay in business otherwise, and nobody would enter the market. When you add things that need to be covered, including adding more people (people ages 18 to 25 tend to go uninsured at a greater rate than most of the population, for example), covering conditions you previously didn't (like preexisting ailments), etc., you increase your paid benefits. As such, you have to increase your revenues, which you do by raising premiums.
     
  19. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #19
    You should say, "Our premiums are rising because of the additional coverage we I don't need ..."

    But that's the point of pooled risk, you pay for what everybody needs, not just you.

    It's funny, because I've never had children, yet it never occurred to me to wave my little fists in anger over the fact that I'd be paying for 25-year-old children staying on their parents plans.

    Different perspectives I guess.
     
  20. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    The ACA was intended to pad the pockets of insurance companies who make political donations, allowing those companies to continue increasing their prices under threat of taxation.
     
  21. macrumors 603

    Tomorrow

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    "...or wish to subsidize."

    That's pretty much what I just said, adding that my costs went up as a result.

    Not sure why that's funny, but:

     
  22. macrumors 65816

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #22
    How many people do you estimate have enrolled at this point? You seem confident that the glitches were due to an overtaxed enrollment system.
     
  23. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #23
    Is that supposed to turn insurance into a dirty word?

    :confused:
     
  24. macrumors 603

    Tomorrow

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    I don't blame the insurance companies.
     
  25. macrumors 603

    Michael Goff

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    Being a part of a society means sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.
     

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