Cost of Education

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Frohickey, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #1
    I don't think you know how it is in the United States. Everyone, and I mean everyone can attend higher education. All that is required is the will to do so.

    It is not like in Germany, where your lot in life is determined by the test scores you make after school. Either you go to university or to a trade school. At least, that is how I have heard it described.

    Here, you can be a high school dropout, get a GED, go to community college and bring your GPA up, and transfer to a university of your choosing. Or you can go to a tradeschool, or you can be a bum. Not every school is Princeton or Harvard. There have been lots of people who have went to less prestigious schools and succeeded without the school's prestige.

    In fact, one of the jokes in the college I went to was how to make a motor spin the other way. The hoity-toity educated student will go and write on the board about magnetic fields and flux, field equations describing the internal going-ons of the motor. Us, Cal-State educated students will go and swap the polarity on the leads. :p
     
  2. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #2
    And the small matter of money.
    </sarcasm>
     
  3. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #3
    Small matter of money...

    If you have the will, then your grades would be good. That leads to scholarships, or maybe even student loans.
    If you have the will, then you could be working fulltime during the night, while you go to school fulltime during the day.
    If you have the will, then you could go to school parttime, slowly gathering up the courses you need for a degree.

    If there is a will, there is a way.
     
  4. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #4
    Competition for scholarships is ridiculous at this point, and the condition of federal and state governments has led to increases in tuition and decreases in funding opportunities. Student loans are how I've had to pay for my education thus far, as did my parents. I'm looking at a good chunk of debt when I get out.*

    Actually, it's reversed for those of us in grad school. You're still having to support yourself and take care of tuition.*

    Absolutely, I know lots of people who've had to do this. Still, you need the support to come from somewhere.

    *As always, unless your parents can pay your way, money is a big deal.

    If there's money, there's a way. The university system is still a privilege in this country, and becoming more so every day. Personally, I think a performance-based system where school is free is a refreshing option.
     
  5. J-Ray1000 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #5
    suggested retail

    College tuition in the states is "suggested retail". I went to a $30k/year private college but only ended up paying about 6k a year through loans, scholarships and financial aid.

    Tuition at LA City College is $11 a class! It's no Harvard, but you'll have a college degree and the base skills to step towards any job imaginable. Talent willing, you could go to practically any grad school.

    Everything is possible. The only thing that capitalism won't do for you is hold your hand. You must want it yourself.
     
  6. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #6
    I'm going to SDSU, the largest CSU in the system. Tuition is a paltry $1400 a semester, but cost of living plays a huge role, too. I had about $5,000 a semester in student loans for my undergrad. Last I checked, you can't trade-in a high school 4.0 for half off your tuition.;)

    The price isn't negotiable. How you pay it is.

    LACC is a 2-year school, so you get your AA/AS. You still need a BA/BS to get to grad school. I agree that community colleges are a great option. Problem is, they're becoming the only option for many people.

    It doesn't matter how much you want it if you can't overcome the financial hurdles.
     
  7. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #7
    That's a laugh. Try it some time and tell me how it's just about willpower. It almost killed me.
    Not to mention I was so tired I sucked at both school and work, but hey -- I was doing both full time.
     
  8. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    #8
    You students in California have it cheap. My courses are about $750 each including books. That's $3000 per semester at 16 credits, not including living expenses. I go to a run of the mill public university because it was all I could afford. I didn't get any financial aid at all until I was 25 due to recent changes in federal guidelines(by a Democrat no less). I did the "work full time and pay for a class or two as I go" game for several years. Not fun or very effective for learning. Now my state aid has been cut off entirely since I have been in school for too many years due to going part time for so long in the beginning. Sure, I managed to get lucky enough to get a couple of scholarships, but I'll still have a huge debt when I graduate. Many people I know gave up and took low paying jobs because they could not afford to continue with college.
     
  9. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #9
    I have. Graduated with an engineering major (and a comp-sci minor), 3.57 GPA (3.72 engineering GPA). In some quarters, I took 16 units. Got all 'A's. In one quarter, took 20 units, but that was pushing it, never did it again. Full time is 12 units, btw.

    Willpower, good study habits, focus.

    I remember on MWF, going to school. Had to be there at 10:40am for the first class. Almost non-stop classes up until 3pm. Drove to work, worked for 8 hours, did homework during my lunch break. Went home at 12 midnight, did a little more homework, and went to bed. TTh, its a little easier, didn't have to be at school until 12:45pm, up until 3:45pm, then its either back home for homework, or work. Weekends were usually work, sometimes not. Vacation days were picked in order to coincide with finals week, or the week prior to. There were times when I would meet a fellow student at school (had access to a lab) whereby we could study together. Soda, coffee were common.

    It wasn't always like this, some quarters, I took a lighter load than others.

    No help from the parents for tuition, no financial aid, Pell grant never kicked in since it was an endless quizshow of 'need more financial info from your parents', just the California resident rates for tuition. Lived at home, helped pay the rent. Didn't go out and party a whole lot. Tuition was ~$740 a quarter (however much it was for the CalState system in the early 90s), books came to be $300 or more depending on the courses, some were multi-course books, so that made it manageable. Kept the books I liked, sold the ones that were worthless.

    Don't say it can't be done. I guess I really wanted it.
     
  10. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #10
    Re: suggested retail

    PCC... Pasadena City College for me... for about 3 semesters, or is it quarters.
     
  11. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #11
    No-one's saying "it can't be done". We're saying it takes financial support, which you obviously had.

    And, come on, 3.5 and 3.7? How about a 3.9 while working, participating in intercollegiate athletics, and living on my own? ;)

    How was I able to do it? Student loans (i.e. debt).
     
  12. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #12
    Financial support? Where you do see that? Living at home and paying rent is pretty much the same as living alone and paying rent. Nevermind. I don't want to argue this point further. Besides, we are definitely far away from the Capitalism Marxism thread.
     
  13. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #13
    "Pretty much the same", minus food, utilities, etc. Also, how'd you get around (your own car paid for with your own money, family car, etc.)? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how you can rationalize the unimportance of money in this situation.

    Trust me. I work for my university as well as take classes. I'm in this situation right now and I know how it's going for me and for my classmates.

    I agree that it takes will. But it's only an opportunity if you have enough financial support.

    No need to worry about the other thread. This deserves a discussion of its own.
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #14
    same here.

    put myself through school by working FT. my grades sucked.

    then reagan cut education funding and i lost my loan (forget scholarships, i couldn't even get a friggin load -- i had a single mom, $18k/yr, w/ 2 kids in college, and i didn't qualify for a damn loan). i worked two or three jobs to stay in school. my junior year, my food budget was $10/week. that's not a typo.

    in an odd way, frohickey, i supported your point. i had the will. and the smarts. but did it really have to be so damn hard?

    i don't wish such a hard time on anyone.
     
  15. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #15
    I was working full time, third shift, then going to school 8-3. I'd rather not get an education than be as tired, sickly and depressed as I was during that year. It was absolute hell.
    (Do the timetable on that -- it's about 6 1/2 hours of sleep maximum, while the sun is out, unless I had to do other stuff, like try to live a life, do homework or study -- then it was less than three. I don't take caffeine)
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #16
    Cost of my school went up about 40% over the last 5 years. That sure seems more than the rate of inflation. At the same time, there are fewer classes offered, less equipment available, and housing costs are through the roof (although they have eased a little in the last year). Sure it can be done, I did the whole 12 units/40 hours for 6 of the 9 years I spent getting my undergraduate degree. Wouldn't wish it on anyone though. Those were some of the longest and most difficult times of my life. I lived with my parents for 2 of those years, but I couldn't do it the whole time, not fair to them or me, and finally I had to move far away to go to the school where I could get the degree I was seeking. You can't just go to the local University and take architectural design classes. You have to go where one of the handful of public schools that offer that particular major. Or maybe only rich kids should be architects.

    And oddly enough, it can actually turn out to be cheaper to go to one of those private schools if you can get in. One of my sisters went to Santa Clara U right out of HS, paid about $6K a year on an $18K tuition. Other sister went to UC Davis right out of HS and paid something like $11K a year. Not as many scholarships available to the students who go to state-funded schools.

    I consider higher school fees the same as an increase in taxes that affects only the uneducated.
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #17
    Wow. Some of your tuition numbers are staggering for me. Not high, but low.

    My tuition alone was over $20,000 per year for 4.5 years, followed by law school, at a pretty penny too.

    I'd take $3000 per semester every day of the week.
     
  18. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #18
    I received my undergrad degree over twenty years ago. It wasn't easy then to make a go of it financially -- but it appears to be even tougher now. I worked, but fortunately I didn't have to work full time, as my parents helped out quite a bit and some aid was available. Still, I graduated with quite a bit of debt. A roommate of mine wasn't so fortunate. His parents gave him little or no money, but they made enough to disqualify him for financial aid. After a few years trying to juggle both school and work, he dropped out. Smart guy, sad story.
     

Share This Page