Creating our own browser

Discussion in 'Mac Help/Tips' started by Geert, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. Geert macrumors 6502a

    Geert

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Location:
    .be
    #1
    I don't know guys, but would it be hard to create our own MR browser?
    a cocoa based browser, that works fast, looks nice, has all build in functions that the others have (so that you do not have to switch to IE for a plugin that only works with IE.

    It will be some hard work I guess, but seen the fact htat most of us posting here are familiar with Apple and X. (So we know what a cool browser should look like at least)

    Let's say that we would start such a project, and implement everthing all of us like. And making it the best browser yet, and then sell or give Apple our selfmade browser. (And certainly sell to wintel site making it buggy as IE is buggy to us :p)

    I have to admit, i don't know how such a project is started, but love to give it a try, since all browser I came across did not fullfill my surfin needs.
     
  2. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #2
    Hmmm....

    Do you program at all??? Its not exactly a trivial task.

    For a glimpse at how complicated it can be, take a look at the code for Chimera. This is a native interface that wraps a pre-existing rendering engine (Mozilla's engine, to be exact). So basically this browsers code does none of the rendering (which is basically the hardest part of a browser) and the code is still complex.

    I will admit that I'd love to see it happen and I'd even take part in an attempt. But it is going to be a very hard process.

    Taft
     
  3. Geert thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Geert

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Location:
    .be
    #3
    Yes indeed it will be hard to do such a thing, but nobody is rushing us, further would it be a great learning experience for all involved, and could perhaps lead to some unexpected stuff that be created.

    But I would like to see as much comments as possible, pros, cons. We'll see where we end up.

    Come on guys, start posting, this thread boosts your postcount!
    general threads have been slowing down, and wouldn't it be great that while boosting our postcount we also could be "working" on something?
     
  4. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000

    GeeYouEye

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Location:
    State of Denial
    #4
    The real question is if anyone here knows how to program in Objective-C, which is what Cocoa is based on. I'd be glad to help, but I don't know that language.
     
  5. D0ct0rteeth macrumors 65816

    D0ct0rteeth

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Location:
    Franklin, TN
    #5
    I have some basic programming experience; (PHP, VB, Java and so on) but have no experience in anything like this...

    glad to help in anyway...

    C-

    ........................
     
  6. Choppaface macrumors 65816

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    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #6
    as long as it parses webpages just like IE, cool
     
  7. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Location:
    Sydney
    #7
    Thats would be hard but you could mess with the mozilla code to see what you can come up with
     
  8. icetraxxg5 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Location:
    Commerce Township
    #8
    I will help! I do a lot of work in REALbasic/Java/WebObjects but never really ventured into cocoa/objective c because I thought it was a waste of time because only NeXtstep/OpenStep and MacOS X use it. But now I think I will try to learn it.


    ...If anyone wants todo something like this or some kind of other project please email me at icetraxxg5@comcast.net
     
  9. MacLuver23 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    #9
    make it key Lime!

    :eek: You should make the browser color changable, I'd love to make IE's color change from blue to Key Lime! It will match my iBook! :) I would also love to change my System colors from Aqua or Graphite to Key Lime. Apple should give the system buttons and menus different colors, for all the old iMac and iBook users out there. Just my thoughts... :D
     
  10. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #10
    Hmm, Im going to have to agree and say that we start with Mozilla. At least that that way we don't have to start from scratch. I have some experience with Objective-C but I am certainly willing to learn more if we go ahead with this project. Just a thought, Macrumors is already one of the biggest mac forums now maybe it will be one of the biggest mac open source communities. We have a wide base of people with computing experience and a devotion to Apple. If we all cooperate we may turn out some exceptional programs.
     
  11. jaykk macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    CA
    #11
    New to objective-C, but willing to learn

    I wont mind learning Objective-C, since i have been programming in C/C++ so many years. I am learning WebObjects now. I should pick up a book on Cocoa next
     
  12. sjs macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Location:
    GA
    #12
    mmmm...I love hot cocoa and I once wrote a term paper in college. Can I help?
     
  13. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000

    GeeYouEye

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    #13
    Re: make it key Lime!

    Umm.. you can...
     
  14. Geert thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Geert

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Location:
    .be
    #14
    let's see, so far most of you guys want to help. Great!
    I've just ordered a couple of books on X, Appelscript, Cocoa.
    I'm not familiar with c or C++, have good skills on visual etc, and seem to be a quick learner. So mozilla is our start then.

    But how do we trade ideas quickly?
    Make sure we don't do double work (eg someone working on flash plugin, and ending up 3 others are doing the same thing.)

    Where do we start?

    ps we'll implement all suggestions, so we'll make it a personal browser, every user can change the way he likes it.
     
  15. MacLuver23 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    #15
    Re: Re: make it key Lime!

    You can!? Then please tell me how ( I want to make the buttons look like a key lime, but have an aqua liek effect, you know what I meen? (iBook238@mac.com):)
     
  16. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Location:
    serendipity
    #16
    macluver

    go into ie. the view tab, then browser color...

    mine has key lime as an option.
     
  17. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #17
    re: browsers...

    what I want is a browser that allows me to completely cookies from websites I desginate....and to block out those stupid pop-up advertisements for casino b.s & whatnot... :rolleyes:
     
  18. sparkleytone macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

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    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #18
    if you start with mozilla, then whatever you create must be free.
     
  19. afonso macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #19
    hmmmmmm

    are you actually aware of the HARD work this is going to take?

    1. None of you as far as I can tell have much experience in Cocoa/ObjC.

    2. I am guessing all of us here have most of our time occupied with work and plenty of other stuff...

    Building a browser from scratch will take an enormous amount of time, specially considering what I mentioned above.

    You have nooooooo idea...

    It would be best to look at Mozilla to get a glimpse of what they do. Just please remember it's written in Carbon, not Cocoa, so it will look completely different when written in ObjC...

    Chimera is evolving really rapidly... In my own personal opinion, support the author(s) for Chimera. That would be the wisest choice...

    If you really want to compete with OmniWeb (Cocoa) and Chimera (Cocoa+/-), then you have an ENORMOUS task ahead of you...

    ------------------------------


    Even so... yeah I do know C, C++, Java and bits of others... I do know Cocoa and ObjC, and I would be glad to help...

    But... I am already starting a major project in Cocoa/ObjC that would take 99% of my time and patience, so I guess I wouldn't have much free time.
    ---------------------------------------------

    Anyway, a nice old browser, just a browser, like what Cyberdog was centuries ago, would be just what I envision...

    Too much bloated software laying around...

    My 2 pence... ;)

    Take care
    Afonso
     
  20. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #20
    Yeah, most people I've seen here clearly don't write code for a living. You haven't the slightest idea of the magnitude of this task. It's kind of like deciding on a whim that you're leaving tomorrow on an expedition to the South Pole.

    Objective C has some very strong points in its favor. The thing that works against it is that the syntax for the object oriented stuff is very unlike anything most C programmers are used to. It seems to be inspired largely by Smalltalk, and especially if you are entrenched in a C++ world (like I am), it's very hard to switch gears.

    I would love to help on such a project if it weren't doomed (not to be negative or anything ;)), and if I wasn't already working 10+ hour days with a task queue already filled to bursting.

    Besides, every single suggestion and idea I've seen here for a browser is already in progress in one form or another, and relatively very far along. OmniWeb is a pure Cocoa browser with a proper OS X interface, and it gets better with every release. Chimera is rapidly filling the "Cocoazilla" niche (and why they didn't call it that, I'll never understand). These are active projects. In OmniWeb's case, projects where people are actually paid to work on them. You aren't going to catch up to those guys, and they want their browser to be 100% compatible just as much as you do. It's not that they're lazy or incompetent or anything. The problem is that it's hard.
     
  21. mmmdreg macrumors 65816

    mmmdreg

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #21
    How about we go steal some people from mozilla and chimera to help us ;)...anyway, I'm willing to be emotional support for all you unstable persons out there...when do we start?
     
  22. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #22
    For OmniWeb, I can say that they are honestly working hard and have a significant development team. For Chimera I'm not sure how many people and man-hours are being put into it.

    I can't argue with the fact that this is a difficult task, but I don't see any reason not to try. An attempt could produce fruits that could be built into other browsers (assume you opensource the project). And for some people trying when the odds are against them is fun. Put me in that category.

    Also, the syntax for Obj-C is most certainly different from C++ or Java style object syntax, but its actually easy to get used to. The syntax more closely resembles actual language and is really quite user friendly. When I learned it, I was feeling comfortable in the language after only a day or two of coding.

    Taft
     
  23. afonso macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #23
    again...

    yes, objc is really easy to learn, BUT you must have an understanding about OO concepts beforehand and C programming experience...

    otherwise, it just wont make any sense...

    I still agree that it would be a fun side-project...

    someone start up a webpage, to start deciding on basic functionality, basic GUI, and stuff like that...

    :)

    U guys are nuts... ok so am i...

    later,
    afonso
     
  24. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #24
    okay, i taught myself c++ and then promptly forgot most of it... and of course i can program f77 (lotta good that does me) but other than that i'm worthless. i would like to offer difficult and unnecessary feature suggestions, tho... thats one thing i'm good at :)

    like... can we make a browser that ends world hunger or something?
    hehe
    seriously tho, someone needs to make a browser that disables popups and popunders, like eyelikeart said... but casinos? come on we all know we're talking about porn loops here... hehe ;)

    i know Omniweb does it, but even configured to "only allow on link click" or whatever, there are still times it won't open a new window *when it's supposed to*... blah...

    :)
    pnw
     
  25. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #25
    Re: again...

    I'll start up a website. Begin psting some of the ideas we have here.
     

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