creationism to be taught in schools?

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #1
    ...by 46 percent of respondents in netscape poll

    against 54 percent who believe in evolution to be taught is schools...how about the option for teaching both???

    i believe a lot of things in the bible, but where does it say anything is wrong with science? and evolution is hard science, not some idea that scientists make the facts fit to...creationism to be taught in school, if it is taught that the world is a few thousand years old is ridiculous even though i believe in the big bang theory, but being started by god

    someone had to get the ball rolling:p
     
  2. vniow macrumors G4

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    #2
    Wow, 46% take the Bible literally? :rolleyes: :eek:

    I think of instead of teaching both evolution and creationism, they should teach science and mythology cuz it seems like a helluva lot of people don't get either.:rolleyes:
     
  3. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Why not?

    They teach Klingon at some universities. They allow people to major in Frisbee(sp?), so why not Creationism?

    On a more serious side, there may be a way to scientfically explaine Earth being a few thousand years old. If you specify the year length to be relative to the current time keeping. Early in the universes creation (just after the "Big Bang") stuff was very close together, and expanding at a very fast rate. Relative time might be faster at this point in history. It's been a very long time since I played around with theoraticle time-space-and gravity stuff, so I may be off some. Essentially, it is possible that in the beginning of the univers, one years worth of development might take 1 day of our time, and 1 year of our time might encompass thousands, if not millions of years of early development.

    Lots of "ifs" "Mights" and "maybes", but the same can be said of evolving from tiny mouse like mamals, to current humans.

    BTW, There is a third possibility, what about the idea of aliens "seeding" the earth? There is some evidence to this effect.
     
  4. zorglub macrumors member

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    #4
    " so help me God "
    " in God we trust "
    " God bless America "

    maybe too much "religion/real world" relations ...
    i don't know, we are so cartesian here

    z
     
  5. vniow macrumors G4

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    #5
    If they teach creationism, they should also teach all other creation myths, like the Aztec one, or the Mayan one, Hindu, Greek, Roman, all the Native American ones, Egyptian ones, and all the countless others throughout history. Why just stop with the Christian one?
     
  6. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #6
    but the bible does not teach the world is literally thousands of years old

    and the bible does not say, "ignore all science"

    i went to bible college classes and never did they teach or even refer to the world being just thousands of years old

    christ died for our sins and that is all that is basically true to all denominations of christianity...other things like faith healing, toungues, women ministers, true day of the sabbath, and many other issues get hashed back and forth from denomination to denomination and within denominations...but saying the world is a few thousand years old is non-biblical and discredits the whole christian faith

    some people won't listen to the great teachings of jesus because some idiots out there are rallying for banning the teaching of evolution in schools

    other idiots used to jail those who believed the earth went around the sun or that the earth was round

    sometimes members of the church act on their own ignorance and are not following the teachings of god and the bible
     
  7. vniow macrumors G4

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    #7
    True, how the creationists see the world as only about 10,000 years old is they take somebody like Peter who begat Abraham, who begat Joseph or what ever (I really have no idea what the order is :p) and go all the way back to Adam and Eve and add them all up and presto! The world is 10,000 years old!
     
  8. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #8
    when i was in school in the 60s-70s, they taught all those things except for creationism as mentioned in genesis

    i say teach all of them and let the child decide what to believe thru study and years of life experience

    but don't ban evolutionism or science in schools...the last thing we need now is fewer american scientists and engineers...message...we are not very good at math and science in america compared to many developed nations and some third world nations
     
  9. iGav macrumors G3

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    #9
    It should be an option......

    I was forced to take Religious Studies at school, even though I have absolutely zero interest in religion or infact posses any personal religious belief......

    I found it a waste of a subject, one that I could have made better use of had I have been given the opportunity to choose.....

    Curriculums, particularly in the UK need to be much more flexible than what they currently are, and enable people to make an informed choice about their own education and how it can improve their lives...... Not have stuff thrust down there throats.....
     
  10. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #10
    i believe it is something between five and seven thousand years old in most quotes i have heard creationists say

    so asians like me stemming from the chinese who go way back before that are either a 1) very old culture or 2) we are some demon race that was here before god made adam, a white man, to wipe out all us asians off the planet because we don't believe in a northern european looking jesus christ

    jesus christ was jewish and many christians in america don't know that...i didn't learn of jesus' jewishness from my methodist church in a town that had very few minorities or jews

    i once was sharing my testimony of chistianity to a middle eastern man, and he said, "i don't want to hear your white european religion" and "why would you want to believe that white man's religion"

    sometimes looking at a western history book might make an outsider think that christianity was invented in europe!:p
     
  11. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #11
    Re: Why not?

    in california, the major/minor is properly called ultimate frisbee and people who engage in that major or sport will correct you immediately

    want to piss off an ultimate frisbee player? just ask, "do you play frisbee?"

    watch them go ballistic;) :D :p :eek:

    ...speaking about weird sounding majors, or non-traditional majors... go to www.csumb.edu

    it's the local college where i live and one question the students hate is "now WHAT? did you say your major was?" too funny

    check out the link though...it's a new angle on education and i still do not know what to think of it
     
  12. vniow macrumors G4

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    #12
    Actually somewhere in the Bible it says that angels mated with humans and created a new race which God later destroyed, maybe Asians are decendants of the ones that survived!:p:D

    It seems silly to me that a lot of die-hard Christians don't know that Jesus was Jewish or Sematic (similar to Arab), hell, he even had a bit of African blood in him.
    White man's religion my ass.;)
     
  13. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #13
    The simple solution is to teach the truth. Sounds easy right? It's not.

    What is the truth?

    1. Christianity and every other religion was created by man.
    2. The Bible and every other religion's text was written by man.
    3. Every culture, from the beginning of time (as far as I have been able to tell) has had a belief in something greater than man.
    4. Christians are the majority in this country, and most are white.
    5. A white Jesus is about as likely as me having a 28 inch *****.
    6. Despite that, most Christians belive in a white, light haired, light eyed Jesus.
    7. Millions have been slaughtered in the name of religion.
    8. The US sure seems poised to do it again.
    9. The US consitition separates church and state, yet Christians feel compelled to try to mix the two.
    10. Islam is an offshoot of Christianity and Judaism.
    11. Science is science, and can only be refuted with science, not hokey pokey religious crap.
    12. Fisbee isn't a major, it's a sport for drunk non-athletes.
    13. Republicans get lots and lots of votes from Christian fundamentalists, thus in a two party system, one party pushes for anti-Constitutional things
    14. Macs aren't the best computers ever made, and Jobs isn't god, but Jobs is a genius and Macs are wonderful.
    15. Arn spends far too much time on this site considering he's a doctor.
    16. BTTM's company is the best place to buy a mac.
    17. Hindu's are one of the few religions that teach tolerence of other's religions.
    18. We're all crazy.
    19. Especially Jefhatfield.
    20. And me.
    21. I don't have a 28 inch *****.
     
  14. barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

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    #14
    Although they crammed that 2000 year old story book down my throat all through my education. It wasn't forced as studied subject as far as exams are concerned.

    We had a 45 minute lesson called "religious education" but it was more about other religions and cultures than the bible.

    I think in retrospect, they shouldn't be able to have any religious activities in schools, they shouldn't focus on it, it excludes those who believe in other forms of making us feel superior (yeah, I'm really important, so important infact that I'm going to this wonderful place when I die or I'm going to be reborn as another lifeform, BS, I'm wormfood like every other dead thing). I think religion should be studied in the same way as history in schools, matter of fact, these people believe this, these people believe that. No prayer in assembly only celebrate relgious holidays and festivals that exist by yearly tradition.

    Okay, I left high school nearly 10 years ago but if they'd done this kind of thing in school instead of what they did all those hours of my life wasted on being a sheep would have been used to learn another subject or have more study time for exams. Anything other than god bothering.

    Okay I realise I'm offending people here, those people who follow their religion like they're life depends on it or something and don't allow anyone else to have an opinion that goes against they're beliefs without them crying about it.

    No offence :D
     
  15. rebscb macrumors member

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    #15
    There is much opinion in these comments and our Constitution allows for citizens to hold merely opinion and to vote with merely opinion.

    Even those who argue for science (and trash religion) are spouting opinion. Opinion is an almagamation of some facts, some armchair theory, alot of false memory, all arranged by a brain/mind that seeks to put order where order may not exist.

    However, I do believe that opinion must eventually give way to the struggle for knowledge (opinion washed by logic and method).

    If you truly wish to think HARD about this subject then move beyond your opinion and read look throught this link

    http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser/

    Even many elite scientists do not see the need for separating science and religion for all time.

    I am a scientist and I am a Christian too.... and I think deeply about these subjects a great deal and I am the richer for the struggle....

    I wish all of you a good day and may God bless you for using Macs and may Nature provide you with all of the answers to why Apple is superior at both the quantum and cosmological levels.
     
  16. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Well said, and ditto, in theory :D
     
  17. e-coli macrumors 68000

    e-coli

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    #17
    Re: Why not?

    wtf?? not to hijack the thread, but i'd love to know what you're talking about. evidence??
     
  18. Spike Spiegel macrumors regular

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    #18
    excellent points, although i think muslims would resent the way you said that their religion was an offshoot
     
  19. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #19
    Re: Re: Why not?

    i tried seeding the earth once and nothing happened:p
     
  20. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Re: Re: Why not?

    Keep in mind I don't place much, if any stock in these ideas. I remember seeing a documentry on this once on TV. Their evidence comes from things like: a painting of Chirst crusifiction with angels in what look like space ships; Egyptin history; and a lot more I can't remember. Here are a few links I Googled up with a search for: "extraterrestrial" origins human species

    http://www.thedent.com/horn.html

    http://www.salemctr.com/newage/center31.html

    Like I said, it's pretty far out, but there is some contriversial evidence for this theory.
     
  21. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    I don't think so. Christianity is a religion based on the belief that a Jew happened to be the son of God. Islam is based on the teachings of a prophet of God. They also believe in Jesus and the other Jewish prophets, however, they believe that Mohammad was the last in the line of enlightened prophets.

    Islam is analagous to the Mormans with their "other testament" of Jesus book thing.
     
  22. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #22
    Re: Re: Re: Why not?

    I try to spread my seed at every opportunity.
     
  23. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Why not?

    I think I am going to leave now, it's getting pretty seedy around here.:D :D :D
     
  24. maluscanis macrumors member

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    #24
    Please Read!!

    Nearly every single post I read on this subject was from ignorant minds...this doesn't make your point invalid...but it doesn't say much for you. The truth is you base your scientific beliefs on what people with doctorates tell you in textbooks and base your hatred of Christ and Christianity on hypocritical TV evangelist and fiery Southern Baptist preachers. The truth is that these "Scholars" were taught from infancy that evolution is a fact and have interpreted all there research findings from that viewpoint; furthermore, what makes an individual with a doctorate in Biochemistry any less biased than your typical labotamized christian? And by the way, I am a strong Christian who can't stand hypocritical christians who condemn everyone else while at the same time they are cheating on their wives and using tithe money to buy porsches. I am a christian because the bible speaks to my heart in such a way as to change me in every respect. I believe that most of you will live your whole lives searching for something to bring meaning...searching for a purpose and love and acceptance. I believe that Jesus (not christianity) answers life's hardest questions and would change your life if you gave him a chance. This is not a stupid belief... what's stupid is the idea that atheism is a default worldview that needs no defending. Agnostism is the only worldview that doesn't have to defend itself- but this means you don't know anything. Before you say something so strongly against religion and ethics, maybe you should read a little more about it. There is no such thing as objective morality outside of a theistic worldview. For those atheists out there, this means that rape and murder are not really wrong but just societally wrong...know how many of you are willing to admit to that...I hope none of you because our world is going to hell very quickly if people like that exist. As for evolution, I have a Bachelor's in biochemistry and am pursuing a doctorate in the same field. the truth from someone who actually knows what they are talking about is this: it is absolutely arrogant beyond belief to make a statement of origins given our current scientific understanding. Evolution as it stands make sense only in that groups of organism are related on many different levels (this is why Darwin's came up with evolution because it makes sense in this respect). Evolution while at the outset appears sensible; absolutely (emphasis should be added here) breaks down at the molecular level. It defies objective understanding to believe that the simplest cell could evolve. THe reason why is, and listen very carefully, life only works when all the systems are working. What is the purpose of DNA if transcription and translation don't work (the processes of making proteins from DNA) since proteins are needed to run the cell. (sure RNA can act as an enzyme but the argument still stands). THink of this argument from this standpoint. If only one protein (out of millions) in the body is rendered ineffective from a mutation, it can and usually does cripple the body, many times resulting in fatality. Furthermore, without genetic repair systems, it makes no sense to believe that any species could survive long due to a loss of coordination between proteins. As far as creationism, as a theory goes it has more scientific support than evolution for one reason; if you have an all powerful God then anything is possible; whereas with evolution you have to rely only on naturalistic processes. The truly honest opinion is that neither theory is in any position to be considered fact...I am ashamed at the scientific community as a whole for being so willfully biased and subjective - they have literally brainwashed millions of people with their intellectual position.

    Please people, don't be like those Christians you hate so much...try to think objectively, consider other people's opinions and treat them with respect, and look into these very worthy questions that you obviously know so little about. Thank you for reading.


    And by the way, frisbee rocks and anyone who says otherwise is going to burn in hell. I know that's in the bible somewhere. i might need some time to look it up though.
     
  25. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #25
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Why not?

    Shudder, Son of Taxman...

    Thank God for condoms and the pill ...

    If all else fails, there is always hoping St. Darwin will eliminate you from the gene pool before your seed sprouts.
     

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