Crop Cirles

Discussion in 'Community' started by chmorley, Aug 4, 2002.

?

What percentage of crop circles are man-made?

  1. None are real--they are all hoaxes

    26 vote(s)
    46.4%
  2. Almost all are hoaxes, but a few (<20%) are not man-made

    13 vote(s)
    23.2%
  3. Most are hoaxes, but some (20-50%) are not man-made

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  4. Most (>50-80%) are not man-made

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  5. Almost all (>80%) are real, but a few are man-made

    4 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #1
    I just noticed polls at CNN.com and MSNBC on this topic. I thought neither gave enough options, and wondered how people here might respond.

    Additionally, if there are any that are real, where do they come from? Aliens? Earth-generated energy fields? The Canadians?

    So.....?

    Chris
     
  2. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #2
    I thought it was pretty well established that they're created by men with rakes in the middle of the night.

    Or maybe it's just that whenever I hear "I believe in UFOs," I translate that to "I was sexually abused as a child"...
     
  3. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #3
    Fakes

    Not quite well-established.

    It is clear that some are man-made, but it's not clear that they are all fake. Of course, it could simply be that some are simply able to keep the secret better.

    There are also lots of people who believe they are not the result of alien visits, but other sorts of natural phenomena.

    Here's a pretty good story from MSNBC on the subject.

    Chris
     
  4. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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    #4
    it's hard to really gauge it...but I completely believe in other beings among us in the universe...and I also firmly feel there are a lot of things in which the government hides...

    I think they are real...although there are always the cases where someone wants to jump on the wave and get his/her glory for a few minutes too...
     
  5. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #5
    The few that are not created by humans, or earth energy fields are probably created by adolescent alien's that are just trying to get a rise out of us. I can see it now... they fly over the field, do the pattern, and then hide and watch to see our reactions... :rolleyes: :p It could also be a secret government agency d*cking around with magnetic fields to see what they can do with them. Could be one of many military satellites making the patterns, which would explain the size of them.
     
  6. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    #6
    ok, its not brillient but its getting there:
     

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  7. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #7
    that's gives me an idea

    now i have to get the miracle grow:p
     
  8. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #8
    Re: Crop Cirles

    If you think Canadians make them do they count as man-made? ;)
     
  9. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    #9
    Mental Note: Meet Canadians

    I have not met a Canadian (outside of forums) so I really should meet some, then I might know what they are like compared with USAiens.

    Ensign
     
  10. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #10
    They are evil, blood-sucking bastards who do nothing except give us their cold fronts and ruin our warm weather. Duh! Everybody knows that! :)
     
  11. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #11
    I'd take those cold fronts right about now... I would love it if it would drop about 20°(F).
     
  12. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #12
    Re: Re: Crop Circles

    I believe this would qualify as being done by aliens or supernatural forces.

    Some suggest it is the result of "remote viewing"--assumedly also done by the friggin' Canadians.

    Chris
     
  13. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    Austin, TX
    #13
    What are the odds that we are the only intelligent beings in this vast universe? Of course, if Aliens can make designs in fields by mowing down the crops, why don't they make designs in our cities by mowing down buildings?

    Maybe the aliens (or canadians) are just dicking around with us.

    Oh, and do crop circles occur in places other than America?
     
  14. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #14
    perhaps on other planets on their crops

    maybe it's an extra terrestrial with a poulan weedeater and a spaceship:rolleyes:
     
  15. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #15
    Yea, a lot of them occur in England.
     
  16. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #16

    Well, the question should be, "What are the odds that alien spacecraft have 'landed' on earth numerous times, flattening crops in patterns that have been shown to be perfectly reproducible by men using simple tools such as pieces of wood attached to a rope, and on top of this, what are the odds that nobody is ever able to provide any evidence that these crop patterns are indeed caused by UFOs?"

    Just because it's not likely we're alone in the universe doesn't mean aliens are using our corn fields as parking lots. There is actually quite a bit of evidence supporting the skeptics' opinions that crop circles are hoaxes. Why do they only happen in the US and Britain? Why are there never any detailed reports of the UFO landings consistent from witness to witness? Why do all available UFO photos depict nothing more than blurry, distant blobs? If the spaceships landing in the cornfields are so big, it wouldn't take a massive telephoto lens or anything but the simplest point & shoot camera to capture them full-frame... Unless the aliens have mastered invisibility or are able to occupy a higher dimension. Which would clash very strongly with Occam's Razor.

    If it looks like a hoax and smells like a hoax, it's probably a hoax. I mean seriously, it's called the Scientific Method. Some people need a refresher course.
    I guess they like to imitate the people who make the hoaxes in the cornfields. :)
     
  17. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #17
    "Some people need a refresher course"? Wasn't this the tag line that annoying computer support guy used on those SNL skits?

    Besides, you're taking liberty with "the scientific method". As a scientist, I take issue with this.

    The scientific method does not apply to crop circles as a phenomenon. The scientific method applies to phenomena that can be scientifically tested. How have crop circles been scientifically tested? They haven't. However, the argument of parsimony (or Occam's Razor) is a bit more interesting.

    Occam's Razor states that, all things being equal, the simplest explanation that accounts for all the data is likely the right one. It has also been stated as "the fewer assumptions an explanation of a phenomenon depends on, the better it is."

    I'd actually bet there are some who would argue about which explanation has fewer assumptions--that hoaxers plan, calculate, then carry out all crop circles that have ever existed in the middle of the night, or that aliens from other planets have visited us and left (some of) these as signs, or that some are the result of other natural (unknown) phenomena.

    It's clear that at least some are hoaxes. Enough people have admitted to making some of them that this is established.

    Anyway, the most important point in the scientific method is to remain agnostic when there is not sufficient proof for something. Or maybe you need a refresher course. ;) :D

    Chris
     
  18. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #18
    Yes, I would definitely say that #1 has far fewer assumptions and seems a lot more likely. I think you underestimate the numbers of crazy drunken rural people with too much time on their hands.
    I absolutely agree. I never said "Nobody has a right to believe crop circles are caused by UFOs." I said that available evidence strongly suggests that crop circles are not caused by UFOs, and by bringing up the scientific method I meant to imply that adherence to said method would most likely lead one to conclude that the crop circle phenomenon is scientifically un-testable and therefore scientifically invalid. This, combined with the extensive evidence against it and little evidence to support it, puts it in roughly the same category as the 90-foot, invisible, incorporeal, undetectable Tyrannosaurus Rex that lives in my backyard: the "very extremely highly unlikely" category.

    So I'll respect people's freedom to believe what they wish, but I do reserve the right to laugh and point. :) And even though the notion that UFOs make crop circles seems to be very very very very unlikely to me, I do think an invasion of Canada would be in order just to see what the buggers are hiding under that cloak of kindness and relative neutrality...

    Alex
     
  19. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #19
    Not exactly. It is more simply not yet addressed by science--as is true of God. In the latter case, there is no way to apply the scientific method to the belief system. This does not imply that God does not exist or that people ought not to believe in God. It does imply that the scientific method can offer no proof one way or the other, and should stay the hell out of the way. It's like using a thermometer to measure speed--it's the wrong tool. People make this mistake all the time, hanging their belief systems on "science" in order to make them seem more provable (or due to a misunderstanding of the implication of unproven phenomonena).

    So simply, if science doesn't address it, that doesn't imply that scientists ought to take this as proof that something doesn't exist. "If it looks like a hoax and smells like a hoax, it's probably a hoax," is not the scientific method; it is simply common sense.

    Of course, common sense tells us the sun revolves around the flat earth...

    And we should kick Canada's ass just for good measure.

    Chris
     
  20. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #20

    Sigh... I guess it wouldn't help to mention I don't believe in God, either. :) You are right, though - I stand corrected. I suppose I attempted to defend my argument with science when I should have used probability or reason instead.

    Good point.

    I STILL reserve the right to laugh and point, though. :D
     
  21. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #21
    Fair enough. Interesting, though, that 67% of the people who have responded to this poll believe that at least some of them are not man-made.

    Myself, I remain agnostic on the issue (except about the Canadians).

    Chris
     
  22. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #22
    Are you counting Canadians, Brits and red-necks as human??? I know that the third are not human (at least not modern man :eek: ). I have met one Canadian that WAS human, but he also didn't admit to being Canadian all that much...

    IF they are created by extratescular beings (that's not a typo ;)) then I'm 99% certain that it is a prank.
     
  23. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    VA
    #23
    Well, if they are created by aliens, it shows they have a sense of humor. What else could it be - its sort of like teasing/taunting - 'Go ahead and try and figure it out....'

    I'm not sure what I believe, its so absurd, yet there really aren't any good explanations.

    D
     
  24. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    Location:
    Miami
    #24
    Ok people think about something:

    Why these shapes only happend in the US and England?
    Why there are not shapes like that in Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil, Japan, Argentina, etc?

    Or may be the Aliens whants a North American citizenship too?

    Every time I see those tv programs about aliens I ask myself the same question. There shold be aliens out there but for get about "teenage alien writting grafittis on earth".

    Alway every alien encounter have been documented 95% in the US and some other countries but never below Mexico. I guess that is only US producers sci-fi stuff.

    Natural disasters are every where, wars are every where, but Aliens... only in the US.:eek: :eek: :confused:
     
  25. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    Santa Cruz Ca
    #25
    You've found us out.....

    We Canadians don't really have a Millitary.... We just have a massive, worldwide covert Psy-ops program..... which you have inadvertantly stumbled on..... I'm afraid everyone who has read this thread will be having highly improbable fatal accidents very soon and some may even be mysteriously killed by their Macs while reading this post.... Nothing personal, I'm just doing my job.:D
     

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