cs majors?

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Apr 30, 2003.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    anyone studying computer engineering, telecommunications management, computer science (programming), networking, or a related topic in tech school or college?



    i went to microsoft tech school and studied networking and i am putting together previous graduate school classes and some undergrad classes to finish a master's either in telecommucations management or networking security

    though i am on the hardware side of the industry, i am still trying to gain some skills in programming this semester and digital art (hopefully) next semester
     
  2. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #2
    I studied Electrical Engineering, but it was in the same department as Computer Science, and really a lot of the classes I took would be considered "computer engineering" at most tech schools. I was glad to be a EE major, though - I love math and physics.
     
  3. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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  4. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #4
    the ee and el's are the most common major found in the hardware sector in silicon valley...i am yet to meet a computer engineering major in the region...when it comes to brass tacks, the companies really want the more math and physics trained traditional workers like the old line engineers (ee, el, mechanical engineers, etc) instead of a computer related engineer

    the programmers are usually self taught lifelong programmers though since school cannot adequately teach a person enough to be useable in the real world...many people who also took liberal arts degrees in school and cannot find a job in their field also are programmers since it was their hobby when they were in school (and before) and loving the art of coding is the necessary skill to make one able to do it five days or six days a week

    there will always be work in the technical fields since the real training to be on the hardware sector is too hard for most and the training in the software sector cannot be learned in a classroom due to the amazing hours it takes to get up to speed in the major computer languages

    since a large section of the tech world moved to silicon valley during the dot.com boom, there are currently too many over qualified workers...but that will change when the work picks up which will take several years...and when the non tech world gains confidence in the tech field and tech stocks

    politically, wrong section i know, i don't think the current administration is too hip with high tech and i don't know if it's the people in the administration or the party in general:(
     
  5. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #5
    Hmmm...there's other factors besides just the recession, though. Both computer programming and engineering are being outsourced to firms in India and China. They have a huge surplus of engineers with Masters and PhDs. I for one am not very optimistic. That's why I'm getting my MBA - I figure even when everything is outsourced, you'll still need a manager/coordinator. It'll be sad to pull away from day-to-day tech tasks, but I can always pursue those as a side hobby I guess...
     
  6. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #6
    i went the other direction...i was in mba school when the tech boom hit in the 90s and i ran to the valley to make my claim...but this wasn't the second gold rush like many thought, but an illusion

    my programmer friend/professor from stanford told me that the talent he sees today from india and china is far superior to the american computer talent he sees there or at MIT his other alma mater...mainly because of focus...he mentioned we have tv, computer games, and many outlets...over there, the poverty will make a programmer either have to write his own code for a game or just code for the fun of it...imagine that, every time you boot up, you code since that's all you can afford to do :)

    i am reading a book on the history of mathematics and the great minds of the past...it is not that they had better brains, but that the great thinkers of antiquity had fewer distractions and amazing patience

    today's individual mind is not set up in this fast paced world to produce many renaisance thinkers...imagine a single smart person today who could make great long lasting contributions to math, physics, art, literature, and political science...the way of life today does not make a great climate to make one stretch their mind that far

    instead, we use the great pool of specialized thinkers and vast past knowledge and technology to push our society forward...no one person today could make math progress 700 years in just a few years like archimedes did...when the europeans of the dark ages lost much of the greek knowledge, it took an estimated 700 years and many mathematicians to relearn what archimedes developed in just his life to the field

    if an archimedes or plato existed today, they would have to almost live in a bubble and be totally unaffected by the world and it's many distractions

    i had a roomate in college who attempted to be a 20th century renaissance person studying physics, english lit, and being the head of the campus green party group...besides these subjects, she studies everything else on her own...and even though she is the smartest person i have ever known, she lacked common sense

    for fun, she attended orgies and was involved in some northern california style hippie mass relationship with fellow students and a professor or two...and this caused for a lot of jealousies and tensions...it wasn't a love triangle, but a many faceted thing

    :p
     
  7. Pismo macrumors 6502

    Pismo

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    NH
    #7
    I'm a CS major and minoring in business. It sucks that that CS department at my college is all wintel
     
  8. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #8
    imalave,

    man did i get way off topic there...mathematicians and orgies

    if you are a good mba or good engineer, eventually you will find work

    try being a good lead guitarist or a good sculpturer...now that is a challenge to find a related job and some of these people cannot imagine doing anything else

    in my late teens through late 20s, i was a guitarist and songwriter and i couldn't imagine doing anything else...it was get signed or bust and i was chasing a 1 in a 1000 thing...by age 30 i gave up stardom chasing, finished college, and entered the dull working world where it is safer

    at least an engineer will have much better odds than a rock musician, even in silicon valley post dot.com;)
     
  9. ibookin' macrumors 65816

    ibookin'

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    Jul 7, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #9
    CS major, Philosophy minor. Like Pismo, my CS department is almost entirely wintel. They have a few Sun machines and Macs in the labs, but in the classrooms everything is Wintel. I usually just use my iBook, but I am doing assembly language programming (for x86 CPUs, fo course), so I cannot use my Mac for this without emulation.

    EDIT: My hope is that Cisco Certified techs will be needed here in the U.S. and I'll be able to get a job after or during grad school. I'm currently working on a CCNA cert and will be going for a CCNP eventually.
     
  10. Datazoid macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    #10
    Aye! Going for a double major actually CS/English with a Psych minor (probably not going to happen, but its ok to set your goals high, right?) BTW, our [CS] labs are all Gateway (with a few old SGIs) Linux machines.
     
  11. pepeleuepe macrumors 6502

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    Oct 27, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    #11
    I'm currently a EE major with a minor in Music Recording. Hoping to get into the music technology field. Maybe by the time I get out of school Apple will be designing music recording hardware :) . Anyway, I have to take a couple CS courses, which so far I have enjoyed more than some of my EE courses. Thinking about doing a CS minor, but I'm already going to be here for 5 years, figure I shouldn't add another minor.
     
  12. evildead macrumors 65816

    evildead

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    Jun 18, 2001
    Location:
    WestCost, USA
    #12
    Student

    I am currently a CS major and am finnishing very soon. I also am curretnly working in industry and have been for about 2 years.
     
  13. Pismo macrumors 6502

    Pismo

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    #13
    I like to call the labs at my school "Dell Hell"
     
  14. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #14
    Dude, you're, like, a freakin' Vulcan! You can outlogic anybody ;)
     
  15. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #15
    i am a microsoft certified professional and i have thought about the cisco certified network professional program at the nearby school in santa cruz

    the instructors say that in another three years, things will pick up for cisco techs since all indicators show that the dot.com situation pendulumn will swing back into a moderate place...right now, dot.coms are slow and artificially undervalued so simple economics point to an upping of stock value and of jobs for cisco techs

    during the height of dot.com in california, companies were hiring ccna techs right out of school for 60 to 80 grand, no experience

    routers and switches, while not used too much in the lan environment, are indispesible in an e-commerce environment where wan and cisco's dominance in wan technologies are the rule

    our ccnp and ccna professors have tried to tell the younger techie students that while cisco jobs are rare now, when things pick up for dot.com, it will be the right place to to

    it's like when i went to college in the 80s there were too many teachers so no one majored in k-12 teaching...then ten years later there was this huge shortage and no one there to fill the positions and teachers in california in some districts were getting paid really well, comparatively

    since you are an undergrad and considering grad school and ccna and ccnp, by the time you finish the two degrees and two certs, cisco will be very hot again (in california) and dot.com will be smarter and wiser as well as richer again

    you are in the right place at the right time to be into wide area networks, and especially e-commerce

    funny how cyclical things work for you sometimes:D
     
  16. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #16
    sorry to post again, but i read either in businessweek or pc magazine, that 11 of 12 cisco related jobs are tied into the dot.com boom

    so when dot.com comes back, as it will since it's too good of an idea just to die, you will have several job offers and maybe can even start your own lucrative business

    my microsoft teacher's brother, a cisco certified internetworking expert, which all cisco resale reps have to be, made two million dollars in the last full year of dot.com selling routers to local silicon valley dot.coms...that was his commission!
     
  17. janey macrumors 603

    janey

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    #17
    i can't believe myself...mods can you please delete my post?
     
  18. evildead macrumors 65816

    evildead

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    Location:
    WestCost, USA
    #18

    Im a double Major, CS and Psychology. Im working on my CCNA right now as well. Im in Semester 2 of 4. There are jobs here for Network Admins and the CCNA should help you. I currently work in industry as an Enterpise Network/System Admin for a large Aro-space company. I have yet to finnish shcool (should be done soon) and I am all ready working.


    My University is mostly Windows as well but we do have a Mac Lab and a Sun Lab. The Mac lab is pretty impressive and new (Quick Silvers and LCDs). The Sun Lab is older (Ultra 5's and a E250 for a server which is only a few yers old.)
     
  19. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #19
    the ccna is not a bad certification as i have also finished two semesters in the cisco academy

    but the better certification to have as a network techie or network engineer is the microsoft certified professional, or the mcsa, or the mcse

    the cisco certification helps most when combined with a microsoft network certification or a technical degree in engineering or computer science

    alone, the cisco certification, the novell certification, and some others will not impress a human resources officer for a high tech firm

    get that degree first, or get that microsoft network certification first...or at the very least, get the compTIA network+ or server+ entry level network technician certifications first...before getting anything cisco

    then you can think about a ccna

    unless you work with routers and switches most of the time, the likely skills an employer will want is lan technology of all types, microsoft based wan technology, server, workstation, and stand alone pc skills

    i have been a tech for four years and before that i was, at one time, an hr officer for a technically related government organization

    sometimes i do meet young techies starting in the field, with no experience, who want to play a one-upsmanship game and enter the certification field with the most coveted (but rarely required) ccie certification and circumvent the easier and more common certifications...network+, server+, mcp, mcse, cna, cne, ccna, or ccnp (or ccda, ccdp, cissp)

    while the ccna is earned before the ccnp and the ccda is earned before the ccdp, the ccie was originally the certification for a full fledged cisco salesperson and still does not require any prior training or certifications from anywhere

    in the real world, a ccie is likely to have more than one certification first, and not just only in cisco technologies, either

    as much as i don't want to tell you this, if you want to be in the high tech field and be hireable by a wide variety of firms and clients, you better bone up on your microsoft skills and or certifications

    ;)
     
  20. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #20
    jargon explained

    mcp - microsoft certified professional - pass 1 closed book, computerized test
    mcsa - microsoft certified systems administrator - 4 tests
    mcse - microsoft certified systems engineer - 7 tests

    cna - certified novell associate - 1 test
    cne - certified novell engineer - 7 tests

    ccna - cisco certified network associate - 1 test
    ccda - cisco certified design associate - 1 test
    ccnp - cisco certified network professional - 4 tests
    ccdp - cisco certified design professional - ?
    ccie - cisco certified internetworking expert - 1 very hard test, hands-on, with 60 % fail rate!

    ps - sorry for all the acronyms in the previous post, but this covers the letters that i just blurted out without typing out the full names;)
     
  21. evildead macrumors 65816

    evildead

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    #21
    CCNA

    Im only taking the CCNA for fun... its not a requirment of my job or my education. .... and Im doing just fine with out any MS certfifications :)
     
  22. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #22
    Re: CCNA

    it would be great if the world can do fine without...microsoft;)
     
  23. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

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    Oct 21, 2002
    #23
    I have a BS in CS. :D

    When I graduated someone asked me what I was going to do. I said that I was going to expand my list of clients and grow out a computer consulting buisness. He said, "You aren't even going to use your degree?" I kinda thought I would be using it daily...... Not just to get a job.... :)

    (And for the last 3 years I use my degree at least daily... If not more often. :D)
     
  24. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #24
    my computer business of several years is based on computer hardware, mostly pcs and working out windows problems

    the colleges around my area specialize in AS thru PhD degrees programming mostly, AS in networking on the sever side, work with routers via a CCNA certification, or computer graphic design on an AS thru MS level...but strangely enough, very little on windows troubleshooting stuff or hardware

    the closest school that addresses computer hardware is 70 miles away and those are the ee/el degrees and there is a master's degree in windows troubleshooting in a school a couple of hours away:mad:

    so there is nothing i could study here that would help me on a daily basis...i am taking java right now and i can't imagine how that will ever help me fix computer hardware;)

    mostly whether i decide to put my units towards a master's in IT management or IT security will really have very little to do with my business, especially if i open a storefront downtown

    i would like the see the college and university system build graduate and undergraduate degrees around the basic concepts of the A+ certification...but drawn out in detail more, of course...for us hardware techies
     
  25. ibookin' macrumors 65816

    ibookin'

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    Los Angeles, CA
    #25
    I have considered getting MS certifications and A+ as well, seeing as how many of the job listings I've seen on sites such as http://www.tcpmag.com require MCSE and A+ as well as Cisco.

    My question is how hard is it to get the MCSE cert. I have a friend who got his A+ and he says that the test was fairly simple, but I'm not sure about the Microsoft. Jef, do you have any knowledge or advice in this matter? Could I pass the MCSE without taking a class?
     

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