cutting off hands

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by spacepower, Sep 22, 2003.

  1. spacepower macrumors member

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    Jul 8, 2002
    #1
    i seem to think that sometimes that the US should adopt middle eastern policy when it comes to thieves. let's cut their hand of for first offense and if they are stupid enought to commit a second offense, well, we'll recognize them first bc the won't have any hands......

    yes this is a cruel late night though....

    but if you had to steal to survive you would be willing to take the chance, but if you are stealling for pure greed, like a new tv or ps2 you might think twice...

    there is a difference between stealing to survive...which can be excused.... and stealing for acquiring more material possesions

    I know that there are many inequalities throughout the world..

    some people are really in need and others aren't

    i say cut off the hands of the greedy, rich and poor alike, but spare the hands of the truely needy

    although i am not a proponent of violence, i am not a proponent of greed...

    open the chopping block for enron

    sorry i just felt like pushing buttons ;)
     
  2. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #2
    Re: cutting off hands

    and let's start with the p2p file swappers.;)
     
  3. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #3
    Re: cutting off hands

    No it cannot.

    Stealing is a crime, no matter how you put it, stealing is a crime. Whether or not the individual needed the "tv" to survive is debatable, as is the criminal intent, however stealing being a crime is irrefragable.
     
  4. Zaid macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Of course we should remember that historically the cutting of hands in the ME was always suspended during periods of economic hardship such as food shortages, etc.

    Stealing of food also normally merited a less harsh punishment (i.e none of your bits and bobs would be cut off)

    All of this also existed within an environment where it was considered the duty of the state (and the wealthy) to provide food for the poor.

    This was when the system worked properly.

    Another thing to remember is that capital punishments ALWAYS carried an alternative non-capital punishment. The choice was made by a judge, taking the severity and nature of the crime into account. The victim could always request the lesser non-capital punishment (something that was seen as a great act of compassion by islam)

    Of course in some places with corrupt rulers and judiciary the checks and balances fell by the way side.
     
  5. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Re: Re: cutting off hands

    Have you ever actually been starving? I somehow doubt that if you had you would have chosen to die rather than offend your morals.
     
  6. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #6
    Re: Re: cutting off hands

    Do you get your hands back if they overturn your sentence?

    Actually, the Catholic Church condones stealing in order to survive. It even encourages it if food/starvation is being as a tool by a corrupt system.

    It may still be a crime legally, but morally, it's just peachy to take what you need to live.

    We're not talking about stealing TVs, we're talking about stealing essentials that keep you alive. Like cable and music.
     
  7. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Re: cutting off hands

    There is??

    Maybe all thieves should leave a note when they steal something reiterating that they are stealing to survive, instead of for acquiring material possessions.

    (end_sarcasm)
     
  8. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #8
    Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    I am not a rich kid bud. I have spent a few nights wishing I had something more to eat....

    I am not trying to come off as cruel and uncaring, but the law is the law. "....I was in need of money so i robbed the bank and shot everyone...but i needed the money!..."
    :eek:

    In the United States atleast, the government is not a theocracy (although it has been called a despotism ;)). If the US were a theocracy it would not be as much of a stress to cite 'moral laws' as a means to disregard the act of committing a crime, however as mentioned before, the US is not a theocracy.

    I can certainly understand needing food to survive, I have been in that postition, but what cannot condone is committing a crime to do so.
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #9
    Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    so all the mp3s on your hard drive are from music you bought? and you've never sent anyone an mp3?
     
  10. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    I can say with all honesty... YES
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    commendable
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  13. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #13
    I think it may be a better idea to distance ourselves from the judicial policies of certain Middle Eastern countries.

    As long as we're cutting off hands are we going to start stoning people again? Oh, and we should let murderers off with a month in jail as long as the victim is a female family member.
     
  14. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #14
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    How is this related to stealing food to survive?
     
  15. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Yes. Speeding is in most states, considered an infraction, subject to a fee, and no jail time.

    Actually, the most dangerous is a distracted driver, and this either via daydreaming, cell phone, intoxicating substances, jamming to the radio and irate mother-in-law. :D
    The next is a speed differential between cars on the road.
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    "the law is the law"

    my mp3 question stands. and what about jaywalking? trespassing? slander? you're innocent of everything?
     
  17. XnavxeMiyyep macrumors 65816

    XnavxeMiyyep

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    #17
    I disagree with the cutting off of the hands. What if later they turn out to be innocent? They should do something less permanent, like smashing their hands with a hammer.
     
  18. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #18
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    I have done all of the above. Most of them stem from laziness, not from sheer need to survive :p
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #19
    Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

     
  20. shadowfax macrumors 603

    shadowfax

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    #20
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    true. you can't make a law that allows poor people to still and get their wrists slapped, while people that steal without need lose their hands. that's very counteregalitarian.... slippery friggin slope.

    letting the starving poor get away with crime is no way to raise their standard of living.
     
  21. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #21
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    I didn't take the original post seriously. No one in their right minds can really be suggesting cutting off hands as a legitimate method of punishment. That style of draconian punishment was abolished long ago for very good reason.

    The Anatole France quote is not meant to propose the elimination of laws against theft. It does remind us that our laws must weigh both justice and compassion in its scales. Or do we all need to read Les Miserables again.
     
  22. Zaid macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cutting off hands

    So in other words you've stolen (music) and broken other laws

    Sure the law is the law, but in the real world (where the rest of us live) not everything is clear cut. Things tend to be shades of grey rather than black or white.

    For instance you kill someone, you've broken the law. Murder is murder right? Then why do we see fit to grade murder? Murder 1, ... , Manslaughter, ... , self defence. Its a spectrum coz we realise that some of them are worse than others, and some hardly deserve punishment.

    Getting back to your theft example, surely you see that theft due to laziness is a lot worse than theft of food in order to survive. (though not as bad as say theft for profit)
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    Infraction, misdemeanor, felony... what's the difference from a morality standpoint? They are all wrong, aren't they? I thought the argument was that breaking the law was a black-and-white kind of thing. Or are there times when it is ok to flaunt the law?;)

    I don't care about distracted drivers in this context. That is simply an attempt to distract from the original issue.
     
  24. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Reminds me of macfan in his heyday!

    BTW, where is macfan?
     
  25. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #25
    He hasn't posted for over a month. Guess we lost him.
     

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