Death penalty and racism.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Happybunny, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Happybunny, Apr 24, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012

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    Happybunny

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    iJohnHenry

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    Zombie Acorn

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    Your link didn't work for me, but I think I read the right article. I think a lot of these studies on racism when seeking the death penalty ignore past behavior and crimes. White guy that hauls off and kills someone is less likely to get the death penalty than another white guy who has a record a mile long. Black people statistically commit more crime than whites and so it is more likely they will have a record when being prosecuted for murder
     
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    thejadedmonkey

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    #4
    Of course, just saying that can open you up to racism too. This world is too PC. :confused:
     
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    Happybunny

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    citizenzen

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    It's not that the world is too PC, but that stopping at race as the determining factor for this disparity in criminal behavior is not sufficient of an answer.

    What aspect of race is the cause?

    What other factors need to be added in?

    I suspect that the further one looks into this issue, the less the color of one's skin matters.

    But I welcome the truth. So bring it on.
     
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    NickZac

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    This article is not quite correct. In fact, the statistics it uses almost undermines the good it can potentially do. Last I read, Blacks were far more likelier to get the death penalty. However, research has indicated that it is Whites who are more frequently executed, which shows even further bias. And then of course there is the whole man thing... Additionally, life in prison does not cost $50,000 total. It is 50k a year, which is conservative. So $50,000 x 50 years (again conservative) x 13 would be the correct math equals $32,500,000. While this is still a fraction of $4 bil, it is misleading at best how the author did this. The $4 billion dollar statistic is also incorrect.

    Now am I saying this is a bad article? Not due to content. There is HUGE racial bias in our justice system. Anyone who argues against this cannot look at crime and punishment stats. Everything from jury selection, to defendant lawyer race/gender, to geographic location, to the religion of the judge has been found to have some sort of affect on ultimate outcome. However, the article uses so many emotion-invoking words and phrases that I feel like I am reading a fairy tale much like when the Republican party talks about terrorism. And this is just the tip of the iceberg in how screwed up the justice system is...
     
  8. torbjoern, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012

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    torbjoern

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    I wonder which group is more likely to ask for fried chicken and watermelon for their last meal: blacks or whites? :D

    You mean blacks get prosecuted and convicted more frequently than whites, right? I assume that's what you mean, since you mention criminal records. The way I see it, we can't know for sure to what extent the conviction rates reflect the number of actual crimes committed. I know it's common to assume it (usually it's close enough anyway), but we should not take it for granted that it does in this case, especially since the question at hand is whether or not the legal system is biased against blacks.

    Any criminologists here?
     
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    Zombie Acorn

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    No, I mean if we look at the average white person vs. the average black person the black person is statistically more likely to have a criminal background. In fact black people commit 52.2% of the homicides in the US with only 12.6% (we can further reduce that to about 6.3% as most of these homicides are committed by males) of the population, along with 32.2% of sexual crimes such as rape. If you are going to assert that the only reason for this is because of racism you will need to prove your case.

    There is something wrong in the black culture of the US, and its definitely not poverty because theres plenty of that to spread around without homicide rates such as these.
     
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    citizenzen

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    I believe it would be more accurate to say that there's something wrong with American culture. I don't believe you should single out a race without understanding and acknowledging how the whole has influenced and shaped it.

    While I happy to talk about black culture, it needs to be viewed as a product and part of American culture and history, and not separate from it.
     
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    rdowns

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    Really dude? Your post is pathetic.
     
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    Huntn

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    #12
    The sad fact is that humans are prejudice and that innocent people have been put to death based on prejudice or the simple need to blame someone, anyone of the right color. In addition, the death penalty is a lower standard than humans should aspire too. This is why I am against the death penalty. One innocent put to death is unacceptable to me.
     
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    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    What about black history would justify 50%+ of homicides committed in the US with only 6-7% of the demographic? Slavory? That's been long over. Racism? Most of these kills are on other black people and are ignored daily. Poverty? More white people than black live with that by a large margin. Fathers who don't stick around after impregnating someone? Who's in control of that? Poor education? Likely due to the single parent who can't control their kid and make sure he's attending class because the deadbeat father left.

    I'm not sure why people are trying to gloss over the statistics or find excuses for the problems instead of addressing them. Its not an issue with black culture, its an issue with American black culture.
     
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    localoid

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    #14
    That's interesting... This conclusion you're reached comes from where, exactly? Is this something based on actual experience/insight gained from interaction with black Americans and their culture or is this some sort of insight you've acquired via "research on the Internet"?
     
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    Zombie Acorn

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    I've posted the stats, you would have to be blind to not see an issue.
     
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    Eraserhead

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    How do you know its not down to poverty? How do you know the police don't target black men for killings which they haven't committed?
     
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    CorvusCamenarum

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    Ask Bill Cosby what happens (even to a black man) when you speak out against ghetto culture.
     
  18. mcrain, Apr 26, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012

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    mcrain

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    You posted stats, but you misinterpreted them in a way that is common, but still wrong. Blacks don't "commit" 52% of the homocides, they are 52% of the homocide convictions. There are a lot of unsolved homocides and not-guilty verdicts. In addition, there are a LOT of cases that end up resolved through plea to a lesser charge.

    In other words, the statistics you posted do nothing more than prove the point that blacks are treated disproportionately worse than caucasions.

    15,094 total homocides. 9,972 male 1,075 female 4,047 unknown 4,849 white, 5,770 black 251 other 4,224 unknown
    Percent distribution1 total 100.0 66.1 male 7.1 female 26.8 unknown 32.1 white 38.2 black 1.7 other 28.0 unknown FBI
     
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    ericrwalker

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    #19
    So are you saying that some races are smarter at hiding their crimes? Or that some races have are favored by the system?
     
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    mcrain

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    I'm saying that there are some crimes that are easy to solve. There are also crimes that generate police interest. In addition, there are differences is the type of investigation performed when suspects are x, y or z. After that, you have prosecutors who have discretion to charge something as a homocide vs. justified, manslaughter, 2nd degree, whatever. Those same prosecutors have the discretion to enter into pleas with defendants who are represented by counsel. That counsel may be very expensive, very experienced, very cheap, very inexperienced, very over-worked, etc. On top of all that, there are political and media issues that tend to favor certain crimes over others.

    You add all that together, and you might have an explanation. You might not. I don't have the answers, just observations.

    (edit) I forgot to add that some cases result in not guilty based on insanity. To get there, requires a physician hired by the defendant (often reimbursed by the State, but if so, often a court approved doctor, who is not always the favorable opinion someone else could afford).
     
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    Eraserhead

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    #21
    Its also easier to convict someone of a crime who is already convicted of another crime.

    If black people are more likely to be stopped and searched (for example - they certainly are in the UK) they are more likely to be convicted of more minor crimes and therefore as they are already on the system its easier to convict them of more serious stuff.
     
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    ericrwalker

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    So, the system favors white folks or the type of crimes white folks commit. Lucky me.

     
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    Eraserhead

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    I think that's pretty obvious - at least to an extent.
     
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    skunk

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    I absolutely agree. There is every possibility that these statistics are extremely unreliable.
     
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    localoid

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    #25
    One of several elements you're ignoring include whether or not discriminated against by the legal system (and by society at large) is a factor...

    In this particular case, referred to in the OP:

    "Superior Court Judge Gregory Weeks concluded that despite Robinson’s horrendous crime, there was no doubt that racism infected the state’s criminal-justice system—specifically, that prosecutors intentionally kept blacks off of capital juries—and that this same racism presumptively infected Robinson’s trial too. "
     

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