Death sentences overturned

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #1
    Well, as many of you know, I have a personal interest in this matter.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96245,00.html

    As best as I can tell, my brothers sentence was overturned by the 9th Court of Appeals today.

    So, he would be remanded to life in prison, instead of death. Now, the state of Arizona is going to appeal this, but I think that this rulling will hold up in the US supreme court.
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Sounds pretty good to me.

    The more power is given back to the people (juries) and taken from the government (judges), the better.

    If you don't mind me asking, why is your brother on death row? Don't answer if you don't want to.
     
  3. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #3
    Na, I don't mind.

    Here is a link.

    http://www.adc.state.az.us/DeathRow/DRowTZ.htm#TOWERY
     
  4. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    it's a good move. i'm glad it happened.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #5
    Thanks man. I am happy for him.
     
  6. macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #6
    So your brother was convicted of murder? I am sort of confused.

    Also are you happy with the ruling? May seem like a dumb question...
     
  7. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #7
    Hope all goes well. Good luck, B2TM
     
  8. Guest

    shecky

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    #8
    i'm sorry but i sorely lack the same enthusiasm as the rest of you on this ruling. i agree that the jury not the judge should wield the power, and in that respect I do agree with the ruling. but why dont you all read some of the crimes that these "people" commited, and explain to me why i should be happy they they are allowed to live.

    and no offense to you personally B2TM, i can only imagine the range of emotions this must have been for you.
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #9
    Well, you should be happy because of rule of law. To take someones life, that is serious. A judge is an elected official, and therefore bias to their party. Thus, not consitutional.

    The Constitution won today, not the inmates. Now, if they are retried, and sentenced to death by a jury, then so be it. They get what they deserve.


    I am happy that the Constituion won today. I think my brother deserves death for what he did, if he did it. He says he did not, and there is no DNA. So, in his case, no death. Now, if there was DNA, or enough proof, then yes, he should get it for what he did.
     
  10. Guest

    shecky

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    #10
    fair enough answer, and I do agree with you.
     
  11. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    The only way for "justice" to operate equally and fairly is if the rules are applied across the board with no exceptions. Their crimes were horrendous, few judges, I hope, would consider killing them if their cases weren't extreme. They also will be behind bars for the rest of their lives with no hope of parole. Your happiness is obviously contingent on seeing these people killed, to me that is sad but obviously our views on the "legal" murdering of our fellow citizens vary widely.

    I think this ruling, the pardoning of those on death row in Illinois along with the so called "expert" DNA lab in Texas are signs that the get tough campaign has gone too far and that the pendulum is swinging back. It's about time.
     
  12. Guest

    shecky

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    #12
    actually, my happiness would be contingent on these psychopaths never having done the crimes to start with, so unless you can somehow channel me then you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to what you know I think.

    What i DO think, however, is that i do support the death penalty, and i think it is used far, far to infrequently. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. What i really think we should do is terminate the life of some of these animals the same way they did it to thier victuims, but apparently that is "cruel and unusual." So instead, we should spend time and money providing them with a warm bed, 3 meals a day, "rehabilitation" materials, TV, ping-pong and such so they can instead lounge around a cell instead of paying the price for what they did. I say they gave up thier human rights the second they made someone else give up thier human rights by killing them.

    Again, what i REALLY wish was that these crimes never happened, but having said that i do not buy for a second "they are in jail for life and thats good enough" crap. Because ya know what, its not good enough. Is prision time hard time? absoloutly. is it as hard as having battery acid injected into your veins and then being strangeled to death? no, it isnt.

    now i would like to AGAIN reiterate that I tottally agree with B2TM insofar as the overturning of these judgements - he is absoloutly correct, it is a win for the constitution.
     
  13. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    1. 'psychopath' is a medical term that may or may not apply to the individuals that the decision affects. you may as well refer to them as 'cancer patients'

    2. it is true that the courts have found these individuals guilty. however, it has been shown time and again that there are significant errors in the judicial system and it would be a statistical error to assume that 100% of them are, in fact, guilty.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #14
    The death penalty should be done away with entirely.

    I have two major reasons for this view.

    First, and most obviously, two wrongs do not make a right. Punishing a criminal for their misdeeds is fine, but killing a criminal for their misdeeds is not. I would argue that the death penalty isn't even punishment, it's revenge. When you punish someone, one of the major reasons is to teach them something. Dead people learn little.

    Second, except for extreme circumstances, you can never be absolutely certain you've got the right person. In a perfect world the bad guy would always be caught. Real life is not like the movies in this respect. Sometimes bad guys get away, and sometimes good guys get put behind bars. Or killed. I'd rather not kill an innocent person if I can avoid it.

    toast
     
  15. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Well, I have a question. How many of us here have someone in their family on death row? How about how many have been in prison?

    Now, let me clarify a few things. The notion that the members of Death Row have an easy cushy little life is absurd. Let me tell you about their life.

    They wake every day at 5 am. They eat, in their 8x8 cell. They dress, and at 5:45 am, they begin to work. They are on a chain gang, in the middle of the Arizona desert. They can have 1 gallon of water per day while at work. They eat at 12 noon, in the work field. They are paid 10Cents an hour for their work. They then go back to the "house" at 4Pm. There they eat again. Now the food. Is barely what we would call a meal. I know. I have eaten it when visiting my brother. It is worse than an MRE. They go back to their 8x8 cell. If it is a Monday, Wednesday, or Friday, and your last name starts with an A-L, then you get one of your 3 showers per week. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, M-Z gets theirs. No showers on Sunday at all. Total lockdown on Sundays, and church is over a loudspeaker. You have to buy your toothpaste, toilet paper, writing paper, etc. Pens, pencils, etc. You have NO TV, NO radio, and no music devices of any kind in your cell. Artwork is not allowed. So, there is no creativity allowed. You get 1, yes 1 phone call per month. It has to be a collect call to a registered number with the wardden. When you are not on the chain gang, you get 1 hour of "excersise" which is basically being walked around a courtyard. The rest of the day you are in a cell.

    Would you prefer that for 50 years, or death?

    Not to mention the fact that you have to worry about people trying to kill you and be the biggest baddest person there.

    They do not deserve an easy life, and they do not get one.

    I personally think that there should have to be DNA evidence, or more than 2 credible witnessess to a crime to allow the death penalty, but it should exist.

    Sorry, if it sounded like preaching, but prison is not what they make it out to be on TV.
     
  16. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    yeah, that's rough. i sure wouldn't want that.

    the day i start worrying that the prison population has it too easy is the day i need to find something constructive to do.
     
  17. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #17
    Well said, well spoken my brother ;)
     
  18. macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    And don't forget that it actually costs us more to execute someone than to keep them in jail for 50 years or so. I know death penalty advocates will say "Well kill 'em faster!" but the fact is that this is the most streamlined the constitution lets us be and it costs more.

    God, I'd hate to be in one of Sherrif Joe Arpaio's jails out there in Az. That guy is a sadistic SOB.
     
  19. macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Well, maximum security prisons I'm sure have very serious, tough situations. However, I understand that some lower security prisons are actually being run by corporations and have the prisoners do telemarketing and stuff. Anyone know if that's true, or was my anti-american sociology professor talking out her ***?
     
  20. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    She was talking out of her ass ;)
     
  21. macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    She wasn't talking out of her ***. In fact, I was one of several attorneys on a team working on a proposal for a privately funded and run prison in Southern Illinois. There are several large players in that game, and they run a bunch of prisons all over the place. There are also a lot more consultants on that issue than you would think, so it is clearly something that happens or is considered fairly regularly.

    (edit) look at the number of private beds at the top of this page... http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~logan/

    (edit 2) That page is over a year old, nearly a year and a half. I'd guess that the numbers have increased.
     
  22. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #22
    I don't know about the telemarketing part but the privatization of prisons has been going on for quite some time. At least since the late 80s. They like to locate them in rural areas where there's cheap non-union labor. Their track record from what I've heard is mixed. Sorry, no links but I'll see what I can find.
     
  23. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #23
    I am glad your brother won't be killed.
    I am glad the others won't be killed.

    I'm sorry this ruling was too late for some.
     
  24. macrumors member

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    #24
    BTTM: For the record, Arizona has argueably the roughest prison system in the nation. For good reason though. Criminals did crimes, so they're punished. In other states though, (I think Rhode Island is one of them), guys that are in maximum security because they killed a bunch of people can have televisions in their cells if they make enough money in prison by selling antiques and such.
     
  25. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #25
    Well, if that is the case that is wrong. I think they should be treated as criminals. Locked away from society. However, I think that a human should get a shower a day you know.

    Thanks for the comments psuedo
     

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