Defending Spy Program, General Reveals Shaky Grip on 4th Amendment

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #1
    link

     
  2. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #2
    No lawyer indeed.

    It seems standard of office in the Bush administration, once again, is loyalty, not the slightest clue as to what the office entails.
     
  3. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
  4. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #4
    I'm not sure I get what you mean, perhaps you could elaborate.

    What surprises me isn't that those in power have no idea what they're doing or what they're talking about. We've seen that before many times, and not just in this administration. Though a lot of it in this administration. What I'm really bothered by is that only 51% of Americans have a problem with being spied on without a warrant. Especially considering how easy it is to get a warrant. We are so willing to have our soldiers die for "freedom", and yet we give those freedoms up so easily because we are afraid. I guess that Bin Laden tape worked.

    I want to know who they were spying on and why. Especially since, according to the FBI, it didn't get us anywhere anyway. And I wonder how many people would be ok with it if it was Clinton doing the spying.
     
  5. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #5
    If only our government knew what the **** it was doing.

    You'd think a basic understanding of the basic principles of the founding document of our nation would be a requirement for the job.

    Lawyers? No, they don't need to be lawyers. They just need to be qualified.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #6
    If only all our emergency coordinators had some emergency experience... :rolleyes:

    If only all our CEOs had some ethics... :rolleyes:

    If only all our presidents were Rhodes Scholars... ;)

    Besides, we're not talking about just 'some' general. This is the guy who headed up the domestic spying program on Americans... You'd think he might just possibly have looked to see exactly what the 4th amendment says.

    Of course that would imply that Bush appoints COMPETENT people to these posts. :rolleyes:

    I'm sure Heb would be just as tolerant of a HRC administration official not knowing the 2nd amendment... :D
     
  7. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #7
    I have no faith in govt doing anything in secret without the appropriate checks and balances. His pledge that they wont overstep or abuse this power is pure spin. Given power,secrecy without checks allways leads to abuse. everytime,everywhere period . Its mans nature. Its why our forfather's had the common sense for all the checks and balances in our govt system. These same checks and balances are being sidestepped by King George and folks like Alito wont have any problem with that. Wasnt Germany a Democracy before Hitler took it over? same kind of crap, samer kind of power grab. This administration just doesnt stop pissing on our Constitution does it.
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #8
    *cough* Mike Brown *cough*

    Indeed.

    I await the burning down of the Capitol Building for Bush to declare martial law and bring the analogy full circle.
     
  9. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #9
    i'm trying to find out what bush needs to disband congress. it might take nothing more than a majority of SCOTUS to agree with him, and he does have the power to pack the court.

    in all seriousness, what's stopping him?
     
  10. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #10
    A few honest republicans, other then that most republicans are yes men. Party first, special interest 2nd, and they dont think much about the 3rd, our country.
     
  11. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #11
    Besides elections in the next few years? How about law enforcement? They work for the people, not the other way around. Kinda like the pres is supposed to. If he tried it, he'd get a swift quick in the butt right out the door. And possibly thrown in jail. Then again, not to go all Godwin on y'all, but since it's already been mentioned, look how far Hitler was able to take things. Anyone want to bet ~30% of people would still support him?

    And where'd Heb go? He didn't answer my question. Again.
     
  12. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #12
    who's going to throw him in jail? he's got a justice department twisting legal interpretation to keep him above the law and a SCOTUS that's on the verge of being under his control. what law enforcement agency is going to storm the whitehouse?

    only congress has the power to remove a president, and with congress gone (in this scenario), bush is not only free to operate as he pleases, but he would have removed the body which sanctions elections. i.e. king for life.

    all that leaves is the military, of which he's commander in chief. a military coup could be planned, but would it succeed? i guess it depends on where the various generals' loyalties lie.

    there could be a populist uprising, but what percentage of society would do so? and do you think bush would hesitate for even a second to declare martial law, suspend posse comitatus and sick what's left of the military on the protesters?
     
  13. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #13
    Wont happen , remember he was elected by a mandate.......53%:rolleyes:
     
  14. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #14
    I'd like to see him try. Seriously. Then people would see him for the nut he really is. I guarantee you I'll suddenly appreciate the 2nd amendment a lot more. Not that it would come to that. Look at those who have come forward in the whole CIA/FBI thing. The fact that only half the military like him. His very tenuous grip on his fellow Republicans in Congress, who I doubt would take being disbanded lightly. Not to mention the >40% popularity. I mean, I get what you are saying about how Hitler did such things, and people are pretty apathetic, but very few of us want a king. Especially him.

    Besides, with most of the active military elsewhere, I have a feeling there would be more protesters than police. ;)
     
  15. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #15
    how would that play out, though? bush would order a marine detachment to defend the whitehouse. they'd have to, bush is commander in chief.

    let's assume some army generals decide to stage a coup and order their men to take the WH. how many would back down once they see how it's defended? how many marines would turn? i've no idea, but it wouldn't be pretty.

    in another situation, bush sends the army to put down a city-wide riot. after a number of civilians are shot dead, some soldiers join the protest, some go home, and the rest are left to decide if they're going to now shoot on their own men.

    who knows how it would turn out? it'd be messy for sure, and a constitutional crisis. but if it's martial law, i don't think some michigan survivalists are going to last long against a joint air force and marine assault. not if bush maintains control of the military.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #16
    Are you guys guilty under US law of something close to treason? Just curious...:D :eek: :D
     
  17. aquajet macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Location:
    VA
    #17
    Surely the DOJ is watching. :eek:
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #18
    Arn might be forced into giving up your real identities.
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #19
    I've a couple of questions. Do we get banned for a week as a warning, or are we sent off to the reeducation camps after our first offense? And will silverback and slyhunter be there to lead us back to the proper path? :eek:
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
  21. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Location:
    Michigan
  22. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #22
    Such a stickler for the rules! Since when do compound sentences count as two questions?

    skunk, here I was counting on you to send us care packages in the camps. You know, messages from a "free europe" and all that. Maybe a file hidden in a cake? No? :(
     
  23. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #23
    The same people who are standing in front of the White House every weekend, chanting and protesting and calling for Bush's impeachment.

    Oh, wait....
     
  24. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #24
    I just don't think it would play that way. Despite all of our complaining, there really are a lot of protections to stop such things. There is so much bureaucracy that it would be very hard for them to do anything offensive. Then again, to get them to defend the White House probably wouldn't take much, but would be harder if Bush tried to stage some sort of coup. Even if something bad happened, like us getting attacked, it would be hard for him to take it that far.

    I mean, look at all they had to go through to start the Iraq war. If he told the military to bomb NOLA or something, I'd hope someone would at least hesitate. At least, I'd hope. I guess he'd have to fake an alien invasion of something. :p
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #25
    When you're serving one. Don't worry, I'm sure they have broadband in the gulag. Anyway, I'll wave as your white jet passes through Prestwick on its way to Romania.
     

Share This Page