Dell has launch all-new design workstation, HP too; What about Apple

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Amethyst, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. macrumors 6502

    Aug 8, 2006
  2. macrumors 603

    Apr 15, 2004
    To be honest, Dell's new cases look worse then their old ones.
  3. macrumors 601


    Jul 17, 2010
  4. macrumors 6502

    Apr 6, 2006
    Apple just let's it ride. If they'd pull their heads out of the iPad long enough, we could have had a new Mac Pro as well. They seem very content selling people 2 year old technology, at rediculous prices. Whatever. I abandon ship come June.
  5. macrumors 603

    Apr 15, 2004
    Yeah... again... As far as Xeons go, two years old was as good as it got until yesterday.

    I would like them to build Mac Pros powered by magic pixie dust, but that wasn't going to happen either.
  6. macrumors 68020


    Jan 10, 2007
    Same here - no new Mac Pro by June means Hackint0sh here I come: a dual 6-core SandyBridge Xeon with 64 gigs of RAM, stuffed into my old Coolermaster Stacker case (if I can fish it out of the back of the closet that is).
  7. macrumors 65816

    Apr 16, 2004
    Drifting through space in a broken escape pod
    I agree, both those cases are quite bland. Dark grey plastic is the new beige. I have to wonder how hot they get, too.
  8. macrumors 603

    Apr 15, 2004
    What's interesting is HP cleaned up their internals nicely, but Dell not only made their case more ugly, but didn't fix their internals at all.

    Upgrading Dell workstations has always been a giant PITA compared to the Mac Pro.
  9. TennisandMusic

    Aug 26, 2008
    It doesn't REALLY matter what the cases look like. They look fine. It's far more important what you can DO with the machines.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want an Apple take on a machine like this. The current Pro just doesn't cut it anymore in any way shape or form.


    Watch the video I just posted, swapping out parts is easier than on a Mac Pro. You don't even have to open the box for most things. And try changing out a disc drive or power supply as easily on the Mac.
  10. macrumors 6502a


    Dec 3, 2007
    Abilene TX
    Lol! They totally are trying to copy Apple's videos they do of new products.
  11. TennisandMusic

    Aug 26, 2008
    Yeah but everyone is doing that these days, so who cares? What's important is that the machines look good, functionality wise. Not only that, the top end starts at 2 grand or so. Apple is just absurd on the workstation side these days. They truly do not care whatsoever it seems.

    We'll see if we get an update anytime soon, and can go from there.
  12. macrumors 68020


    Apr 16, 2008
    Tempe, AZ
    Okay, so HP's top end series (Z820) starts at $2,299, but it's totally stripped down with an E5-2630, 4GB of RAM, a 500GB hard drive and NO graphics card. It's $500 more for the same thing with 8GB of RAM and a Quadro 2000. So really, it's $2,799 for a machine that will actually boot out of the box.

    It's pretty hard to pass judgment until Apple releases a new Mac Pro (when and if, that is). Just yesterday, a base quad-core Mac Pro was overpriced by $500 or so compared to the competition, but higher-end configurations (notably dual-processor models) have historically been very much in line with HP and Dell.
  13. macrumors 68040


    Aug 6, 2007
    I agree with you up to the point where OSX is missing.
  14. macrumors 68000

    Sep 12, 2007

    A disk drive is hardly challenging on the Mac Pro, is it?

    As for that dell design, CPU B is directly behind CPU A.

    What idiot thought that would be a good idea. :rolleyes:
  15. macrumors 68020

    Jun 26, 2002
    Yea Im not sure why people think its hard to replace a disk drive, heck even the DVD was easy to remove (placed BD internal).
    The CPU part is a strange one, but I find that of all the duals we've purchased (in the past) from Dell (that came in with single CPUs) we never bothered to upgrade to a second chip since by then the damn thing is useless and ends up a school donation :p
  16. macrumors 603


    Aug 5, 2010
    You really should consider adding some meaningful information to your posts on this. It's usually the bottom end that's overpriced with Apple relative to competition. Some of their configurations are more competitive than others. What sucked was how much the price shot up for from where it started. They've never addressed some of the features available on Windows boxes, but the first couple iterations of the mac pro were priced in a really competitive manner.

    There are a lot of little factors, like the others typically carry three year standard warranties. I don't know about the quality of warranty service from brand to brand, so that would be another matter.

    I never cared about how a case looks. It's not something that would motivate me to spend more. I only care how it works.

    I'd have to watch it again, but see at least you're commenting on something that actually matters rather than case aesthetics.
  17. macrumors 603

    Mar 10, 2009
    With the lid closed to the internals, it is. Think about the context where the machine is rack mounted and you want to get to the hard drives while standing in front in it.

    Mac Pro minimally has to be slide out from the rack ( if on sliding drawer) or removed or dedicated significant rack space to open lid into inside the rack (huge dead space).

    It is similar to their design requirement for the power supply swap out from behind.

    Current Mac Pro's have similar design. They are staggered a bit, but there is definitely overlap in the front to back airflow. However, the RAM DIMMs are in the flow of the ingest/exhaust flow too in the Mac Pro design. Dell packs the DIMMs into a different thermal zone with covers ( which presumably have blowers just for each the two DIMMs cover/channels. )
    There is also a slight zig-zag in the DIMM covers so they aren't 100% line, but it mostly intersected.

    They don't show the inside of the case lid so there may be something there to help direct air that went over the first down into the second. It probably will work better with just the first CPU socket filled though. Dual E5 2690's would be a challenge to keep the second one cool.
  18. macrumors 6502a

    Apr 10, 2011
    Honestly I'm not in the market for a new machine but I just want to see some commitment to the line by Apple.
  19. macrumors 6502

    Jan 14, 2008
  20. macrumors 68000

    Sep 12, 2007

    Mac Pro isn't a server and was never designed to be a server. So suggesting that it makes a poor server when it is clearly not a server is abit... silly. :p

    As for the DP machines, they are ever so slightly overlapped, but not fully overlapped. Plus the Heatsinks in the DP machines are a lot bigger than the ones used in the Dell.

    As for memory sticks getting hot, that really doesn't matter. I've torture tested my Apple dims with ECC off overvolted and over clocked up to 80C and nothing happened.

    I look forward to seeing the temperatures of the rear most CPU on that thing that is for sure!
  21. macrumors member

    Mar 22, 2012
    Year, they need a white color finish:)
  22. macrumors 603

    Mar 10, 2009
    I was outlining why the Dell box made them accessible from the front. People do rack mount workstations in some contexts. That Apple's current design is hostile to that is just as much a bonehead move as putting the CPU sockets 100% behind one another.

    Apple even sells the box prepackaged as a server so waving your hands saying it doesn't happen is what is silly.

    It is not that they get hot, it is the fact that the heat from them gets ingested by the downstream CPU on the Mac Pro. "Nothing happened" would be temperature readings for both CPUs would read exactly the same.
    Not that there was some catastrophic failure.
  23. macrumors member

    Mar 22, 2012
  24. macrumors 68000

    Sep 12, 2007
    I wasn't saying that it isn't used as a server, but when the G5 was originally designed it being rack mountable was NOT high up their list of priorities ;)

    Thereby comparing this dell which has had rack mounting included in the design against something that hasn't is silly ;)

    DDR3 DIMMS emit ~5W and ~1W at idle from my testing.

    So all four DIMMs being hammered is 20W, the CPUs are emitting 95W. Slight difference, no?
  25. macrumors 603

    Mar 10, 2009
    The major problem is that even the previous generations of Dell/HP/etc. competitive offerings were all rack mountable. It wasn't using the Mac Pro design constraints as a baseline that was the issue.

    Things change over 6-7 years. I understand that they didn't put it on the list 6 years ago. The iMac doesn't look like it escaped from the ' Luxo Jr. ' movie now either. To be competitive in the workstation market it is an issue now.

    For this newest iteration HP and Dell cleaned up their designs even more so. They've borrowed insights from Apple. It wouldn't be unheard of if Apple borrowed some back.

    It is a significant difference but still present. With front-to-back cooling there is going to be some ingest of upstream heat simply because limited on height/width (depending on orientation).

    The over 95W configs that will likely be the problem.

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