Dell with all it's problems can make a more reliable computer than Apple?

[X5-452]

I will admit, I like the pricing of Dells core duo laptops. That being said I think they look fug, plus they run Windows. On top of that they only ship 1.66 Ghz processors in a lot of them.

 

[contoursvt]

What you have to remember is that this is the first Apple laptop with Intel chips, there are bound to be some problems. That doesn't mean they can ignore them, but when they are fixed I'm sure we'll get repairs/replacements if we call in for them. For now though, I've just been smacking my mac! SmackBook means all the issues so worthwhile, it's amazing!

So what does that mean? The design team was hit on the head making their first intel powered Mac ?? All the same basic design principles would apply. Keep it cool, keep it quiet. Do what ever it takes. Maybe they comprimised too much by trying to make it an extra 1/8" too thin and 100 grams too light. maybe it should have been a tad thicker to hold a slightly larger cooler and fan so that it would run at accpetable temps.

 

[vv-tim]

So what does that mean? The design team was hit on the head making their first intel powered Mac ?? All the same basic design principles would apply. Keep it cool, keep it quiet. Do what ever it takes. Maybe they comprimised too much by trying to make it an extra 1/8" too thin and 100 grams too light. maybe it should have been a tad thicker to hold a slightly larger cooler and fan so that it would run at accpetable temps.

Or they could have just applied the thermal paste right... and it would run fine

 

[bbrosemer]

Wow did anyone else think that heat sink on the dell was thicker then the MBP, because I sure did.

 

[slffl]

I don't know if Dell is more reliable than Apple since I don't have the numbers. Could you post them for me?

Also, God help us if Apple ever turns their laptops into frankenstein just so we can get to the CPU.

 

[Subiklim]

Also, God help us if Apple ever turns their laptops into frankenstein just so we can get to the CPU.

lol! I couldn't agree more on that one. While it was nice that I was easily able to get to the CPU, how often do I need to do it?

 

[jared_kipe]

And, ah ha! Normal cooling paste applied!

First of all, its not cooling paste, they use a pre manufactured pad. First thing I do when I see these is break out a knife and take them off to reapply "paste".

Secondly, your chip is a T2300 1.66GHz Core duo. Apple doesn't use anything that slow. Apple's chips are clocked from 1.83GHz to 2.16GHz, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who complain like hell about them running too hot and all might be running the 2.0GHz models, so we're not really comparing the same things. I notice your computer has a socket, thats cool, go run out and throw a 2GHz into it and see how quiet and cool it is.

 

[Subiklim]

I notice your computer has a socket, thats cool, go run out and throw a 2GHz into it and see how quiet and cool it is.

Willing to give me a 2.0ghz to put in?

Don't they have the same watt consumption anyway, so would it make much of a difference?

Also, mind giving me instructions on how to remove the pad/apply new thermal paste (so long as it doesn't void whatever warranty dell has).

 

[Scarlet Fever]

my macbook is almost dead silent; most of the time i cant hear the HDD going. It gets warm, but far from hot. CoreDuoTemp tells me the CPU is 51 C, but it feels a lot cooler at the case.

the competition have computers which are slower, cooler and sometimes quieter. But that doesn't make them more reliable. They are also built like bricks, weigh as much as them, and (from my experience) prone to falling apart.
My mum had a toshiba laptop for work (Celeron 1.6GHz something). It was slower than my 667MHz powerbook, and it went through 3 motherboards before toshiba said screw this take another one. She now has the model above it. Still slow as, but marginally faster than a 4yr old powerbook

 

[poppe]

http://www.jmusheneaux.com/39c.htm

I figured I'd find the best source out there to see if Apple is truly high grade quality.

I'm sure alot of you have seen this but me new to Apple has not so I thought I'd drop it for all that are in the boat with me.

 

[Gasu E.]

I'm not quite sure I get this post. I never said the Dell was better than the Apple. I said that it exhibits fewer cooling problems than the Apple.

The Dell is usable. Like all Dell computers (or any windows machine for that matter), you have to format it right when you get it to get all the manufacturer's crap off. AOL, Dell's wireless dealie, etc. Putting a fresh copy of Windows on it worked, and I haven't experienced a BSOD.

I guess it depends on which model you get. I bought my daughter a Dell laptop a couple of years ago which ran extremely hot. So hot, in fact, that it went into thermal shutdown several times a day. I finally convinced Dell I had a real problem and they replaced the motherboard (amazingly short tunr-around time by the way). The thing still runs very hot but only goes into shutdown about once per month. By "shutdown", I mean a thermal sensor is triggered and the system just suddenly shuts off-- no BSOD, no nothing.

 

[Subiklim]

http://www.jmusheneaux.com/39c.htm

I figured I'd find the best source out there to see if Apple is truly high grade quality.

I'm sure alot of you have seen this but me new to Apple has not so I thought I'd drop it for all that are in the boat with me.

My original post is not to compare Operating Systems, as I believe that OS X is the superior system. This post isn't even to compare the quality of computers between PC manufaturers, and Apple manufactures. Apple trumps them nearly all of the time. I think that the Macbook/Macbook Pro is an anomoly; most of Apple's products are excellent.

 

[jared_kipe]

Willing to give me a 2.0ghz to put in?

Don't they have the same watt consumption anyway, so would it make much of a difference?

Also, mind giving me instructions on how to remove the pad/apply new thermal paste (so long as it doesn't void whatever warranty dell has).

You take one of those flat blade razor scrapper things and scrape it off. Try not to scratch up the heatsink surface. Clean both the CPU and the heatsink with rubbing alcohol . Then apply some thermal grease.

And no they don't have the same watt consumption, that would kinda be like saying a focus engine has the same gas mileage as a mustang. That extra performance has to come from somewhere.

 

[poppe]

Part of the problem is that no one cares what Dell does. They ship lemon after lemon, but their business model is a huge revolving door--they'll replace mostly anything you bought with little hassle because they ship an unbelievable number of computers every day. The media couldn't possibly care less about Dells shipping with problems because it's not a sexy topic.

If Apple ships more than one computer with a given problem, though, the media is all over it, and this being an Apple forum, the complaints come rolling in here. Apple has never replaced the computers like Dell does, preferring to stand by their individual products and repair them on a case-by-case basis (also because they don't have the same volume and supply management--Dell probably gets more coming back in a day than Apple has sales). Apples successes and failures are sexy topics, and that's okay, as long as people remember to take it with a bucket of salt.

People might be willing to go through three Dells to get a working one, but I'd much rather my first PowerBook get repaired, because I don't have to round up accessories, box anything back up, keep track of changing serial numbers, etc. all because of recoverable problems. Obviously some computers will need to be replaced entirely, but where it's not necessary, I'd prefer to keep the first one. You never know what might be wrong with the next one and when Dell will stop cooperating.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/204066/

I agree Apple gets alot more heat than Dell yes, but that is because everyone knows most dells aren't the greatest build. Apple on they other hand is knowing for great build and reliability. Thats just the price you pay when your knowing for being inovative and cutting edge...

But again the exuses "Rev A" or "Dell Sucks" or "At Least it has OS X" or "No Blue Screen of Death" or "First time to use intel" etc. are all ridiculous whiney excuses.

I understand they are on Rev A, I understand Dell is not amazing like Apple, I understand that Apple uses OS X, I understand that Apple doesn't give the Blue Screen of death, I understand this is their first time to use Intel, but come one...

How many customers have to get shanked before Apple takes notice. You say case by case but all I hear are forums like this guys about taking his case to Apple and being shutdown...

Some peoples computers are being built fantastic! One person even said in this thread hers was great. So I guess that some how excuses Apple from all other bad ones it is shipping?

I just feel bad for all those that switched. Gave it there all and bit the bullet. They dropped what they've been using all their life (Windows) and are dropping over to OS X, but wait they can't experience OS X easily because they computer is flipping out. Imagine all the people trying to use expose or widgets but can't touch there Fkeys because they dont feel like burning their hands (exaggeration).

 

[poppe]

You take one of those flat blade razor scrapper things and scrape it off. Try not to scratch up the heatsink surface. Clean both the CPU and the heatsink with rubbing alcohol . Then apply some thermal grease.

And no they don't have the same watt consumption, that would kinda be like saying a focus engine has the same gas mileage as a mustang. That extra performance has to come from somewhere.

Stupid mustang... I have V6(whimpy) Stang and 16 MPG with AC... now lets talk about crap...

 

[Subiklim]

You take one of those flat blade razor scrapper things and scrape it off. Try not to scratch up the heatsink surface. Clean both the CPU and the heatsink with rubbing alcohol . Then apply some thermal grease.

And no they don't have the same watt consumption, that would kinda be like saying a focus engine has the same gas mileage as a mustang. That extra performance has to come from somewhere.

Thanks for the info. I'll try it after monitoring the CPU temps a bit more.

Everything that I've read says that all core duos (save for the low power chips) have the same watt consumption. Am I reading the list wrong? My processor is the T2300
T2500 (2.00 GHz, 31 W)
T2400 (1,83 GHz, 31 W)
T2300 (1,66 GHz, 31 W)
L2400 LV (1,66 GHz, 15 W)
L2300 LV (1,50 GHz, 15 W).

 

[plinden]

My Dell Latitude D810 is a pretty reliable computer.

The case is hot on the bottom - unbearably hot ... really it is. I'm not exaggerating when I say I can't hold my hand on the bottom for more that five seconds, and I am tolerant of heat. None the MBPs I've felt are nearly as bad. This despite the fans being on all the time. And it whines constantly. And it's 1.5" think and weighs 7 lbs. And there's bleeding from the LCD backlight along the bottom. And it won't wake reliably from sleep. Perhaps 1 in 3 times I have to reboot.

But it runs great, no crashing, stable UI, no problems with spyware, viruses etc ...





... when I run Linux on it.

I hate it the few times I have to boot into Windows.Ok, no system crashes yet, but IT have it so locked down with anti-virus and anti-spyware tools that it's a dog. It takes twice as long to compile my Java code in Windows as it does in Linux on the same machine. The UI on the Thinkpad 600E from 2000 I had a couple of years ago was more responsive because this one is constantly checking for viruses (I downloaded some OS source code recently, unzipped it, then tried to navigate through the folder hierarchy using the folder sidebar in explorer ... it took 20 seconds for each folder to display).

I know enough about Windows to clear it up and make it more responsive but you know what? I can't be bothered. I'm done with that. I use Linux on it 90% of the time anyway, and can't afford the time to maintain the Windows install. Luckily I made it dual boot before IT changed their policy not to allow that, but allowed those who did it previously to keep Linux on the PCs.

This isn't the worst PC I've had. PCs in the 90s were slower, I had a Compaq laptop that BSODed twice a day, and I had keys popping off a Thinkpad. And I've personally owned two reliable and decent Dells in the past. But really, I am done with Windows PCs. I just can't be bothered any more.

I need to rant some more. After I got it back from IT last week (they were changing the corporate domain) I didn't notice they had turned on automatic updates (IT policy). I was sitting working away in Word when a pop up appeared say it had downloaded and installed all updates and was going to reboot in five minutes, with only an OK and a Cancel option, no option "Reboot manually when you're ready". Of course I clicked cancel. Then a couple of hours later I was in a meeting for an hour, came back to my desk to find it had rebooted while I was gone ... F**king Microsoft - that's piss poor programming. Needless to say, I have Automatic Updates off.

 

[vv-tim]

First of all, its not cooling paste, they use a pre manufactured pad. First thing I do when I see these is break out a knife and take them off to reapply "paste".

Secondly, your chip is a T2300 1.66GHz Core duo. Apple doesn't use anything that slow. Apple's chips are clocked from 1.83GHz to 2.16GHz, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who complain like hell about them running too hot and all might be running the 2.0GHz models, so we're not really comparing the same things. I notice your computer has a socket, thats cool, go run out and throw a 2GHz into it and see how quiet and cool it is.

You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions...

Most of the MacBook/Pros are getting to unreasonable temperatures in IDLE load. That means the CPU is running at 1ghz. It doesn't matter if they're running a 1.66ghz, 2ghz, or 16ghz cpu...

I had an E1405 (1.83ghz) before this MacBook Pro and it was extremely quiet and cool. It was also ugly and a pain in the butt to look at. I like the MacBook Pro better.

 

[miniConvert]

Dell make some good machines. I've spent plenty of money with them over the years and had very few problems, certainly nothing like the DOA Mac mini I received.

However, I also believe it's easy to build a 'good' computer when design is an after thought. I just don't think the two companies are comparible in terms of reliability due to this.

 

[bbrosemer]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/204066/Imagine all the people trying to use expose or widgets but can't touch there Fkeys because they dont feel like burning their hands (exaggeration).

Yes maybe some are hot but people dont realize that they are only getting that hot when they are using the cpu hardcore, and the fans are ultra quiet when they kick on. Maybe its just me in that I am used to my loud desktop but this is real quiet I hardly even notice when I am running HL 2 and the fans kick on. I can hold my finger right on that vent for as long as I want other than when the cpu is really going people just need to turn down the best performance to normal or bettery battery they have no need to crank it up when they are just sitting here in the MacRumors forum to be cranking up the performance.

 

[matticus008]

How many customers have to get shanked before Apple takes notice. You say case by case but all I hear are forums like this guys about taking his case to Apple and being shutdown...

Many fewer than Dell, to be sure. You're only going to see support problems come here because of the nature of the site. If Apple resolves the problem, there's nothing to talk about. It's only when people can't get what they want from Apple, or the occasional bonehead phone reps (poor iGary) that people turn to MR to find resolution. A large number of the "Apple won't do x for me" complaints are ridiculous, unfounded, PEBKAC problems.

People don't generally post to say "Hey, I had a problem and Apple fixed it! Go Apple!"...it's not newsworthy and this isn't a personal blog. But Apple customer satisfaction is industry-best, and their customer support is consistently #1, too.

 

[poppe]

Many fewer than Dell, to be sure. You're only going to see support problems come here because of the nature of the site. If Apple resolves the problem, there's nothing to talk about. It's only when people can't get what they want from Apple, or the occasional bonehead phone reps (poor iGary) that people turn to MR to find resolution. A large number of the "Apple won't do x for me" complaints are ridiculous, unfounded, PEBKAC problems.

People don't generally post to say "Hey, I had a problem and Apple fixed it! Go Apple!"...it's not newsworthy and this isn't a personal blog. But Apple customer satisfaction is industry-best, and their customer support is consistently #1, too.

I keep hearing about iGary. Please enlighten me about his situation or a thread that will lead me that way.

And yes Dell will have more customers returning because of crap computers. So that makes it ok for Apple to make laptops that are becoming oven like for many of its customers?

 

[poppe]

People don't generally post to say "Hey, I had a problem and Apple fixed it! Go Apple!"...it's not newsworthy and this isn't a personal blog. But Apple customer satisfaction is industry-best, and their customer support is consistently #1, too.

But Yes Consumer Report keeps ranking their computers like iMac high. And their customer support also gets high ratings by them also. So bravo Apple definitely.

I guess my point is that its awesome that they are ranked so high and all that good junk but I would just really like to see some improvements on the MBP's especially the 15" since its been out so long... thats all

Hey btw did you see that Business 2.0 Ranked Apple #3 for fastest growing company of the year. I think it was the year. Quote me if i'm wrong please.

 

[matticus008]

I keep hearing about iGary. Please enlighten me about his situation or a thread that will lead me that way.

And yes Dell will have more customers returning because of crap computers. So that makes it ok for Apple to make laptops that are becoming oven like for many of its customers?

iGary:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/194882/

Dell has not only a higher number, but a higher percentage. I don't see the defect rate having anything to do with computers that run hot. Lots of computers run hot. My Dell, my PowerBook, etc. The only correlation I can see are the ones running hotter than safe or hotter than operating limits, and there don't seem to be any of those so far in any recurring fashion. 120˚F is hot, but not in violation of safety standards. It's not a laptop, it's a notebook, and it's not Apple's word choice, it's the entire industry's.

 

[mkaake]

just my .10 to add to the conversation... I've got a dell for work (company owned), I've got friends with acer's and lifebooks and whatnot, and I've got another friend with a macbook pro (and formerly a 12" powerbook, and 2 12" ibooks)... and all of them are hot. the main difference I've seen is that the windows lappys tend to get hot in one localized area (and I mean HOT), whereas the macbook gets hot across the whole dang surface. Which one is hotter? Well, it's hard to say. I'll throw a thermocouple on them over the course of the next week. But they all get hot.

That said, I'm not dismissing the issues that Apple has right now, because they really need to tighten up their qa - while the windows lappys easily get too hot to have on my lap, I get mad at the apple for getting so hot - I'd very much like apple to take notice and cool them down. My friend who's got the 15 - his got so hot the aluminum on the battery melted off (it's a thin sheet of alu glued to the battery, and it melted the glue)...

Personally, I'll never buy a laptop that can't be used comfortably on my lap for more than 20 minutes. But I'm more of a desktop guy anyway...