Democratic Debate 11-24

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thanatoast, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #1
    Did anyone else see the Democratic Presidential campaign debate today? It was broadcast on MSNBC.

    I just finished watching it and had a few thoughts.

    First of all, I don't have a tv, so this is the first program that I have watched in a couple of weeks. I have been wondering where all this hoopla over Wesley Clark is coming from. After hearing him speak today, I am less confused. He was a very powerful speaker, and his ideas and tactics were very practical. You can tell he's a military man. After today I'd definitely put him as a front-runner.

    John Kerry was my favorite candidate, and I think he has the most comprehensive plan for running the country. I also like a lot of his ideas on education and defense. Visit his website for more info.

    I like Kucinich for the fact that he stood up in the House as the only member to vote against the war in Iraq. Unfortunately, he comes across as a one note candidate. He also was not nearly as comfortable in front of the cameras as the rest of the candidates, though he did seem earnest in his ideals.

    Gephardt came across as pure politician. I was kinda surprised at how well the crowd reacted towards him. I would rather see him stay in the Senate, because I think that's where he can do the most good.

    I didn't get any vibe from Edwards at all.

    Mosely-Braun came across as earnest, but lightweight. I'm beginning to wonder if that's because of her positions or if it's simply a cultural prejudice against a female leader. I want to like her, and I do, I just don't see her in the White House.

    Sharpton was very focused on his topic of choice, which was enfranchising the people and fighting for them, but I also didn't get a presidential vibe from him, though I am happy that he's in the race to keep his ideas in the marketplace.

    Surprisingly, I thought Dean was rather weak in the debate. He's been portrayed as the other front runner, and I don't think he'll hold that position long with his weak showing. He, like Sharpton, spoke of the power of the American people, which I liked, but I didn't hear much in the way of policy from him.

    Tom Brokaw I thought did a good job officiating. Overall I was impressed by the way he kept the debate moving. One thing I didn't like was that he would occasionally ask a question that was deliberately inflammatory in order to set the candidates against eachother. For instance, he asked Kerry if he thought Dean had enough foreign policy experience to be president, and he asked Mosely-Braun who she would pick of the candidates for her secretary of state. Both questions were dodged fairly well, though. The only bad dodge was made by Gephardt over whether Ariel Sharon is an obstacle to peace in the Middle East.

    I really don't see why the media (what I've seen in the papers) is ragging on Kerry for firing his campaign manager. They play it up like this will cost him the presidency, or that it should. I wonder how much of his grief they are causing by creating it themselves, like a self-fullfilling prophecy.

    Leiberman wasn't there, but spoke afterwards to Chris Matthews and said something important, which was that we can thrwo recriminations around all we want about Iraq et all, but what we've got to do is start to figure out what to do about it.

    Of interest, Kerry and Edwards were in Washington, and attended the debate by HD satellite. Leiberman actually made a good comparison, calling it Max Headroom-style. A very apt description. It *was* kinda cool. Edwards and Kerry were lined up with all the other candidates, they simply appeared in widescreen form. Think the conference room meeting in Demolition Man, with the table surounded by televisions. All in all it was a very informative debate and helped me see a little more into the ideas and opinions of the candidates.

    If anyone has read this far, thank you very much. Did you see the debate, and you have any thoughts on it or the candidates? Perhaps this can become the Official Democratic Presidential Campaign Thread. :cool: A continuing debate of the candidates, their policies, and the race. Have at it. :)
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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  3. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #3
    unfortunately, for one reason or another, i've missed all the dems' debates. i can't say i'm a huge fan of the dems in general (voted nader in '00), but i certainly am even less a fan of bush, and until i see the green (and other) candidates, the dems are already ahead of bush. i just wish they'd be real and not just attack bush with no substance behind them.. too many one or two note ponies out there. and the only one note i'd support is campaign finance reform (a la mccain, forward thinking...) and i don't see that, so who knows

    thanks for the thoughts on the debate, from someone who couldn't see..
     
  4. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #4
    I've heard that the Greens are considering sitting out the '04 election cycle to help oust bush.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    Re: Democratic Debate 11-24

    Gephardt is actually a member of the House of Reps.;)

    I didn't see the debate myself though.
     
  6. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #6
    hmm. interesting

    as i'm not inherently a "green", i guess it doesn't bother me. but i can't help but wish uncle ralph was out there making some noise still
     
  7. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #7
    If Gore had been a better candidate and included some of what the Greens were looking for in a platform then Ralph would have sat out in 2000 as well. The power of the Greens at this point is in local elections...unfortunately not a lot of power, but that's where the door is and then there's room to grow from there.
     
  8. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #8
    last election was my first (twas 19) so i guess i am feeling a bit spoiled by being able to actually vote for someone i respect, rather than a selfish politician

    unfortunately i am of the opinion that there is unlikely to be a great candidate in any major party anytime soon

    gore definitely sucked. too bad. now we're at where we're at...

    but, back to the current flock of dems!
     
  9. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #9
    Go me. :rolleyes:

    As for the current flock of Dems, does anyone have any preferences? Or who do you think the candidate will finally turn out to be.

    I heard rumblings the other day that her Hillaryness might consider juming in towards the end if no solid candidate jumps ahead. Kind of a "uniter" candidate. As in, Republicans "united" against Hillary "Satan" Clinton. :D

    I have one friend who told me, "If Hillary Clinton became President, I would be really, truly afraid for this country." She is a dyed in the wool Republican. I responded, "George Bush *is* President and I'm really, truly worried *now*. How could Hillary possibly be worse?"

    My current preferences run towards Kerry, as I've said. Dean might could win, especially with Clark as his VP. I think Hillary would lose the election, because so many Republicans would come out of the woodwork just to vote against her. On the other hand, it would probably be the highest voter turn-out in decades. :p
     
  10. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #10
    It's too late in the process for Hillary to jump into the mix. The last possible moment she could have done that and still gotten the nomination was about a month ago. If she tries now she'll merely fracture Democrat support even more then it already is.

    I'm expecting Kerry or Dean to win the nomination.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #11
    All this talk about Hillary gives me the willies -- as in, well, you know.

    One of the reasons I remain politically unaffiliated is due to the major party's habit of drawing candidates from their political aristocracies. Most of these people have nothing to recommend them beyond their acceptance by the party leadership as members of the good buddies club. Gore was only nominated by the Democrats in 2000 because it was his turn, and Bush by the Republicans because his family is well-connected. Neither one earned it, that's for certain.
     
  12. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #12
    That always bothered me a lot in the 2000 election. The last thing we need is for the Bushes or Clintons to turn into the 21st century's major political dynasty. At the moment I would say that the Bushes have accomplished this. The only thing that has stopped the Clintons is a lack of competent relatives.
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    Competence is a criterion? I wasn't aware of that...
     
  14. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #14
    I've never understood how just running up to a conservative and shouting "Hillary Clinton!" could make them jump directly into a frothing rage. It's actually pretty funny and if you haven't tried it you should, even if you are a conservative.
    What did Hilary do to justify that kind of rage?
    Bush on the other hand has done all sorts of things as president and governor of TX to legitimately piss off a lot of people.
    That being said, there is no way that Hillary is going to run. It's just a scare tactic by the conservatives to keep support for bush.

    Jello, I hear ya. I like Ralph a lot too. Nothing but props to him, but I'll like him even more if he stays out of the '04 race.
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    some people don't like strong women
     
  16. Sunrunner macrumors 6502a

    Sunrunner

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    #16
    IMHO Hillary seems to be a power hungry politician that is only interested in furthering herself and grabbing as much influence as possible....If she became president I would seriously consider moving to another country.

    ....well not really, but she just reeks of politician.
     
  17. Rebel macrumors newbie

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    #17
    She lost my respect when she didn't kick Bill in the nuts for spooging on the f'n girls dress. It is all politics with her. The human dignity and self respect is gone. As it is with most of our politicians.
     
  18. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #18
    i'm lucky enough to be in des moines, so i am able to actually attend these things, i did miss this last one but have been involved in other activities... it's a skewed picture from iowa, because clark and lieberman skipped out, but dean and gephardt are leading the way here... i'm personally a clark supporter, mildly involved in a grassroots campaign here, i wish he'd come do some ads here. i think clark is the candidate with the best chance of beating bush out of office, which is what we need to be focusing on right now. dean may seem like the best of the dems, but he won't seem so great put up against the bush machine...

    at the jefferson-jackson dinner (that one i was at:) ), all of the speakers kept saying "the next president of the USA is in this room"... there being two candidates that did not attend, that seemed weird. only hillary did not say this, she was inclusive. rumor has both clintons very close to the clark campaign. i wish hillary would seek the vice presidency with him, they'd make a great team. and it would launch hillary into future-president position...

    pnw
     
  19. amberashby macrumors 6502

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    #19
    The Dems running for the nomination are all jokes. No ideas, no substance, no leaders.

    I'm sure they just loved watching Bush eat Thanksgiving dinner with our troops in Iraq. They will think of something negative to say about the the event no doubt.

    Could you really imagine any of the Dem nominees being President and fighting the war on terror????? I didn't think so. Why?? Because they wouldn't do a damn thing. I'm sure the terrorist around the world are praying to Allah for one of the Dems to get elected president. But guess what??? It's not going to happen.

    Remember guys and gals. "All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    you seem knowledgeable. please critique for me these candidates' positions:

    1. kucinich's position on electronic voting
    2. kerry's position on homeland security
    3. edwards' position on education
    4. dean's position on balancing the budget
    5. lieberman's position on free trade
    6. clark's position on manufacturing
     
  21. amberashby macrumors 6502

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    #21
    While the issues you mentioned are indeed important. No one is going to get elected on these issues. There are only 2 issues that can make or break a candidate in '04. Their plan for the economy. Their plan for Iraq.

    The economy is strengthening at a vigorous pace thanks to the Bush tax cuts. (notice that the economy was once a hot button for the Dems. Now you rarely hear them mention it.)

    The situation in Iraq will be much better by election time and Americans love a strong leader that is not afraid to make tough decisions. The democratic nominees come across as weak.

    Election over. Prepare for Hillary's run in '08. That should be fun!!!!!!!! Ha ha ha ha.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    iow, you've not a clue as to what their positions are, you're too lazy to think for yourself, and none of us should give two ****s about your childish, playground drivel.

    now, care to discuss some real issues or shall we enjoy some more of your unimaginative namecalling?
     
  23. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #23
    well, it seems that Gore has endorsed Dean. story not exactly the way I thought that would play out.

    Can anyone catch Dean now? Karl Rove must be cackling in delight right about now. Leiberman can't be too happy, but perhaps Gore is just backing the guy he thinks has the best chance of winning.

    Does anyone know what any of Dean's positions are? If not, I'd question how well he's getting his message out. But I suppose he is kinda concentrating on Iowa at the moment.

    Or how about the optimists question, is there any reason why Dean couldn't be elected? Besides Dubya's corporate money men, that is.

    I must also say I like what Hillary said about coalescing around a candidate, rather than backing a front-runner. Very savvy, and makes sense too. Leaves herself open for a run, but I don't think she'll do it. It's too soon. Now if we lose this year, I'd think she'd run in 08. Assuming of course we're still allowed to vote in 08. ;)
     
  24. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #24
    whoops. totally missed the thread already talking about this very thing. :eek:
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    Funny thing is, Bush has ruined both. In fact, he had NO plan for Iraq before going in.

    His economic plan has shown such diverse, creative and ingenius twists as these:

    Surplus = overtaxation. Solution: tax cut
    Faltering economy = needs stimulus to avert recession. Solution: more tax cuts
    Recession = needs stimulus to bring economy alive. Solution: still more tax cuts.

    So I imagine a stance of "I'm not Bush" on these issues will suffice for the educated voter.
     

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