Do people really like Windows?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by Fender2112, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. Fender2112 macrumors 6502a


    Aug 11, 2002
    Charlotte, NC
    I've been an Apple user since right after the TSR-80 was a big hit and I never really had any desire to use MS Windows. I use Windows now at my office out of necessity, not by choice. I have a brother-inlaw who used to be a Mac user and switched to Windows because of the software he uses at work (3D Sudio Max). We often have discussions about Mac vs Windows, which got me thinking...Why do people use Windows and do they really like it?

    We in the Mac community often praise Apple for OS X and the Mac and the way everything works together. But I've never heard anyone say that about Windows. Most people seem to use Windows because they have to. It is usuallay because the company has dumped a large chunk of money into PC equipment because it's less expensive. The company is then stuck with this investment that will only run Windows.

    I often read or hear about people who like to stay on the cutting edge, like gamers, who keep up with the latest video cards, games, or whatever. They praise the addons, and the software, not Windows.

    My point is, I don't think people really like Windows. They tolerate it. Big Companies say "We are using PC's because they are cheaper". As a result, people use Windows because they have to, not because they want to.

    Enough about you lets talk about me!
  2. ShaolinMiddleFinger macrumors 6502a


    Oct 12, 2001
    What I don't really understand is that they (people who normally use Windows) are alright with it's little glitches here and there.

    Example given: A friend of mine made me a pc....worked great for a month....then at times it wouldn't want to shutdown unless if I pulled the friends response to that example "Oh, that's just Windows, it happens all the time"

    Another example: The mouse on my pc (yes, I cleaned it!) stops responding at times....same response, "Oh, that's just Windows"
  3. Nipsy macrumors 65816


    Jan 19, 2002
    One thing is certain....people don't get wait in line at midnight excited over Windows.

    There is nothing stellar about Windows. It is so mediocre that the world accepts it, joylessly.
  4. alex_ant macrumors 68020


    Feb 5, 2002
    All up in your bidness
    Starting with Windows 2000, Windows has improved dramatically. There are still things I don't like about it (such as the filesystem hierarchy, the poorly-executed registry concept, the idea of drive letters, the UI thoughtlessness, the Start menu, the way each app has its own menu bar, the lack of a useful command line), but I'd imagine a lot of people, especially those who don't know what they're missing, can live with all of that. I'd imagine that to people who have upgraded from flaky 95 or 98 (or god forbid Me) installs, XP is worlds better. And it will continue to improve as long as Mac OS X gives it competition. Windows is the second best desktop OS. Argue about how far behind OS X it is all you like, but it's still ahead of Linux. Not that that says much, I guess.

    The cheapest Mac is $800, and it's years obsolete. A fully-functional comparable PC costing less than half that is fully capable of dramatically outperforming it. Macs are relatively expensive. Some people aren't rich. Others just don't want to spend a lot of money on a computer. I believe price is the #1 gripe about Macs. Most just don't care about what their computer's OS is as long as they know how to use it, it's compatible, and it works. Windows has gotten a lot better at being compatible and working. It still has its larger-than-acceptable share of annoyances and glitches, but to most people, I'd say the little mouse glitches and power-off glitches are not justification to spend hundreds more on an unfamiliar Mac.
  5. phgreer macrumors regular


    Jul 18, 2002
    Greenville, SC
    Well when I first considered purchasing my first computer I really wanted and considered a Mac but I bought a Windows machine for serveral reasons;

    1.) The price was way out of my budget at the time.

    2.) They didn't have that many places or ways to get a Mac in my town at the time

    3.) That Pepsi dude was in charge

    4.) there was a lot more software choices at the time.

    5.) A lot more job opportinities for PC experience

    However when Steve Jobs came back and started turning things around I got excited especially with OSX since I had tried out Linux on my old Windows machine. I used a Mac during my college days in the late 80's and always wanted a Mac first so last year I finally bought an iBook as the protable solution for our household. We also use a Dell 8200 running XP Pro and I'm still satisfied with that as well. I have already invested a lot of money in Windows only programs so I will be keeping the PC for a good long time.

    Now, if more software was compatible with the mac or they gave really good discounts to those switching then I might be a total switcher sooner down the road. It's just too much of a price to pay now to abandon Windows. I really don't have any problems with my PC with crashing or other stuff. I'm a satisfied Windows user but I treasure the Mac.
  6. maxvamp macrumors 6502a


    Sep 26, 2002
    Somewhere out there
    You find some people that love Windows..

    Usually, it is because they have never tried any other operating system, even other PC OSs.

    I am a switcher ( two years ago), and recently had to build a new PC for a couple of small apps that have yet to make it to the Mac. I am hating it!! Productivity on a PC drops big time due to the number of reboots required for this, that, or the other, as well as many apps that just don't work quite like advertised.

    Try some PC video apps, and you will see what I mean.

  7. Fender2112 thread starter macrumors 6502a


    Aug 11, 2002
    Charlotte, NC
    This is pretty much what I was try to get at. People get suckered into Windows, then realize the downfall, but can't switch because it will cost too much. Therefore they continue to tolerate all the annoying things about Windows. Everyone is so concerned about the upfront cost that they don't think about the long term experience.
  8. AWishForNoOne macrumors member

    Jan 13, 2003
    a lot of people who use windows say that they like it out of ignorance. people who have never tried Apple use the common arguments such as slower processors but they've never actually tried one. people live with windows glitches out of "neccesity." they feel like they have to deal with it because they have no other choice in terms of operating systems. this causes m$ to have no need to fix the bugs because no one cares to much about them. windows users are like zombies. they have no excitement for their computers and use them out of neccesity. mac users are like faithful followers. we choose our computers out of sheer joy. we stay home sick from work and school to watch macworlds. windows users have nothing comparable to the expirience we get.
  9. bennetsaysargh macrumors 68020


    Jan 20, 2003
    New York
    So true it isn't even funny
  10. eyeluvmyimac macrumors regular

    Oct 27, 2002
    Ignorant people.

    Since purchasing my wonderful iMac, I've converted roughly half my friends and family to macs. But the other half (who have never used my iMac) will stand by their pathetic argument to the death -- "I can never get macs to work"

    WHAT IS THAT!?!?!

    How come the first iMac holds the world record for shortest instruction manual.

    And ignoring the sheer numbers of facts proving their argument false, just ugh! I can't even express how I feel about this, a mac is NOT hard to use! These people probably never used OSX, in fact, they probably never used a mac period!


    And then comes the rest of my family that hasn't switched. Namely, my dad. He's stuck in the windows world and hates it but can't get out. He has spent too much money on audio software that he doesn't want to leave and rebuy everything. Right now, his current windows problem is that it won't startup. He needs to turn it on, let it stutter around, turn it off, turn it BACK on, and maybe it will work.

    Sigh...I hate windows.
  11. macktheknife macrumors 6502a


    Jan 24, 2002
    I have a friend who likes to use PCs not so much because of Windows but the fact that he can build his own computer using top-of-the-line components for a very good price. He personally doesn't understand why Mac users pay such a big premium for their computers. Yes, he would say, OS X might be more stable, but is it light-years better than XP? Not only that, if Apple wants a premium for a stable XP, shouldn't the company charge less for a slower CPU?

    Now he's an intelligent and rational guy (in addition to being a computing pro), and his arguements makes sense to me in many ways. I love my TiBook, but we shouldn't let Apple take our loyalty to the Mac for granted. If Steve Jobs expects us to pay 30-40% more for a Mac than a comparable PC, he should give us more reasons than just OS X. I mean, as a regular Windows user (I use it at work), I must admit that Windows isn't the crash-happy jalopy that Macusers make them out to be. I have no regrets about switching (I switched from a Dell laptop to a TiBook a year ago), but unless Apple narrows the performance chasm soon, I can't completely rule out going back to using PCs.

    Now, all that said, I must say that a majority of PC users have simply learned to live with the inconvenience and problems of Windows. A lot of my coworkers snickered when I bought my TiBook. I, however, have the last laugh everytime my coworkers scream in agony when their PCs fail to recognize their peripherals or network. I just happily go about my business connecting to our company's network with my TiBook and downloading our .doc and .xls files for work. :D
  12. MacFan25 macrumors 68000


    Jan 5, 2003
    I agree that most Windows users try to ignore the Windows glitches. Before I switched, I was using Win 98. There was always glitches and problems with it. I could not ignore it. So, I looked at some Macs, got an iMac, and here I am now, a very happy Mac user.:D
  13. CrackedButter macrumors 68040


    Jan 15, 2003
    51st State of America
    Also people use windows because its what they are brought up with and they don't know any better. Also they stick to what they got with their pc when buying at dell. They are not aware of alternatives either since they don't advertise or have been crushed.

    OS/2 and all that seems like hidden history to some people i have spoke to.

    I spoke to a person once who only knew macs and windows existed, didn't know about UNIX or anything. There isn't emough awareness of linux or BeOS and people have heard of macs but they are expensive so what else is there?
  14. unc32 macrumors regular

    Jul 17, 2002
    Nobody really likes it, they consider it a tool. Whether it works well for them or not, they simply accept it. It is kind of like explaining to someone on the east coast how great california is. They can't understand. The ability to switch is very difficult for the average user, not for price or software, but more importantly it is lack of confidence in computer skills. For most of us the use of a computer is very straight forward and we can figure out anything that might go wrong. For someone who can barely operate windows they can't imagine changing to a system where they don't know how to operate anything.
  15. Hozie macrumors newbie

    Jan 20, 2003
    Well, I've been a Windows user for a while now (switched to the dark side from OS9 on a grape iMac) and I have to say, some things about Windows ain't half that bad. As mentioned before, the fact that you can build a top-of the line computer which will smoke most PM's at a fraction of a cost does have a certain appeal. Additionally, WindowsXP and Win2K are actually pretty stable OS'es. Personally, I haven't had a crash on my homebuilt XP box in over a year and a half. Sure, it's not as elegant as OS X, but to say that it crashes every 5 minutes is just not true.

    The difference between OS X and XP isn't really stability or performance, it's just the feel of the GUI and the underlying filesystem. For example, the whole registry thing in windows is just wrong, as is the fact that your application installations are spread all over the place. In OS X, it's (generally) as simple as trashing the app and it's preferences. See, to me, that's how it should be.

    I've come to a point that I'm very confident with Windows though, and I understand it's tough for anyone who invested that amount of time into learning the workings of an OS to adapt to another. The problem is that to solve any kind of problem in Windows you HAVE to become proficient in it, whereas things are easier (if you want them to be) in OS X. Me, as a serious computer enthusiast, I actually like tinkering with things, which is why my system has always been running optimally but for the average user Windows is just too messy. That leads to OS'es becoming bloated by registry entries, old drivers that create conflicts and systems crashing. Still, it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Is it Microsoft's fault? Yes, in the sense that they expect way too much from the average Joe Blow and that even experienced users get confused at times. No, because XP at least is fundamentally stable.

    my 0.02$
  16. ZeroKoolNess1 macrumors newbie

    Feb 25, 2002
    Mac Versus Windows

    Here is my opinion on windows. [its long and interesting]

    I am currently a student at Northwestern University. I pay my own way, as does my brother, a senior also at Northwestern University. We both work long hours at different jobs to pay our tuitions.

    Now, at the beginng of my college experience [this year, i am a freshman] i got a Powerbook g4. I love it and love using it, but what has been said before, windows is cheaper, and i am now wishing i would have got a Vaio or etc.

    For about 5 months now i have been working at Kellogg School of Manegement where i do IT for thinkpad T 23s, and you wouldn't believe the problems that people come to me with. It is amazing how bad these computers can get.

    While Mac os X is graphically and systematically [file structure, i.e. programs and their self inclusion] Windows does hold a monopoly on business. I plan on going into law and needless to say i plan on returning to windows on my next computer.

    To simiply put it, money is a key issue for me, and so is software and conformity. While i have loved my mac experience and will keep my powerbook for notes, excel, etc

    Windows is not like it use to be (win 95, ME) it is far more stable and compatable with what i need.
  17. macktheknife macrumors 6502a


    Jan 24, 2002
    Yup, I agree with you completely on this issue. Nobody really loves to use Windows, but it isn't as bad of an option most Macusers make it out to be.
  18. Dumbjimmy macrumors newbie

    Jan 20, 2003
    Actually, people really do love Windows

    There was a time when there were valid reasons for choosing a Mac, but with Windows XP and the pricing disparity, there is no real reason other than wanting to stick with what you know. At least that's my experiencing having supported both platforms for more years than I'd care to think about. Actually if you look at all the cutting edge tech and customization going on right now in the wintel scene it's truly amazing. It's very comparable to the California car scene only in computers. For most kids growing up these days, a computer is more than just a tool, it's an expression of yourself, just like a car is not merely a way to get from point A to point B. I love Windows, and everyone I work with does too, but then most of us love technology too, and that's the big difference. Most people that love Macs love them as tools, whereas most people who love Windows love technology. Don't get me wrong, as wintel has its share of problem, but to use another car analogy, buying a Mac is like buying a Lincoln. You get American reliablility, it's pricey, lots of bells and whistles, and boring. Buying wintel is like buying a Mustang. Equivalent reliability and quality, not nearly so glitzy, but man is it a blast to drive and a blast to mod, and parts availability is out of this world. What you buy depends a lot on how much you like cars and how much you've got to spend.
  19. eyeluvmyimac macrumors regular

    Oct 27, 2002
    nothing against you dumbjimmy but i disagree with your car analogy quite a bit.

    I see wintels as the honda civics of the world. tons and tons and tons of aftermarket parts that could make it really good, but with added components often brings added problems. Whereas the mac is like the Acura NSX. Sure they are the same thing really, (they are both computers and both attempt to do the same thing -- drive or compute) but the NSX is so much better than the civic stock, there is no need for aftermarket parts, thus no problems encountered afterwards. The civic could very well beat the NSX in an all out drag race with the right mods, but in long term it would break down much faster than the NSX. That's why you see civic owners trading in all the time and rarely see an NSX traded in. That's why you see wintel owners buying new pcs all the time, and rarely see mac users upgrading, there just is no need. When the need becomes extreme, we make the move.

    You want cheap, you want farely reliable, you want to rice-out your cpu, buy a wintel.

    You want long-lasting quality, the most stable platform in the world, something to make passer-by's go "whoaaaa!", giving you the best of both worlds, buy a mac.
  20. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Actually, they did wait in line to buy Win95 and Win98, and WinXP at midnight.
  21. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    The majority of PC enthusiasts that I know hate MS and Windows (more so than most Macheads) but they use it 'cause they really don't have an option.

    I've been using windows since 3.1 and building my own rigs (and rigs for friends and video editing) for the past few years. My current OS is Win2k although I've toyed around w/XP. I got my first Mac in April and I had previous Mac exposure thru work and school. I prefer operating in the Mac environment than operating in the Windows environment right now. But if MS releases a version of windows that is superior than the current Mac OS I'll probably switch back to windows all the time (I use both platforms currently). I'm pragmatic like that.

    But I think as long as Apple stays w/a closed hardware setup it will always have a leg up on windows in terms of stability and lack of conflicts.

  22. MacAddict macrumors newbie

    Jan 13, 2002
    Boulder, CO
    The OS 9 illusion

    The funny thing is all these stubborn wintel users who think macs suck have mostly have seen just the old, ugly, problematic OS 9 and below. The wintel users who actually know some stuff about macs think that OS X is the most attractive, stable OS out there, they just know windows, put a lot of money into their machines, and need the software and games that come on a pc.

    Second is the money issue yet again. Hate to bring this up agian but i recently got a pc for my mom's house, (don't worry have 5 macs at my dads, including a 15" tibook, and a 17" new imac), i bought it off of a ebay type site for $600 and put some addons in and it runs really well for a pc. Thats the appeal, someone who is looking for a new computer who looks at a high end mac for $3000 and a nice pc for $900 is going to get the pc no matter what the OS.

    I mean so many people are needing expansion in their computers these days, so they buy an easily upgradable pc. But what they dont realize is that if you spend the money on a high end mac right now, you wont need to expand. I still have an old iMac Graphite 400DV in my room and it runs OS X most apps fine. I mean that was like 5 or 6 years ago! I admit ive maxed out the ram and done everything i could to make it run as well as possible but it is still a good machine. Can you imagine a pc thats 5 or 6 years old? It would be in the basement covered with dust because of all the frustration of trying to take and old pc and run new software on it.:rolleyes:
  23. SilvorX macrumors 68000


    May 24, 2002
    'Toba, Canada
    i basically cant stand using windows me, ive had enough problems (good thing i never had it installed :D), sometimes i miss windows, but thats what vpc is for, i dont miss windows much anyways
    ive reformatted my mac bout 3 times so far, but reformatting on mac is ALOT easier and faster than on windows ;), and i never lost anything while reformatting on mac, while on windows i lost everything many times (most of those times i had to reformat since i couldnt get into xp)
  24. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Nov 15, 2002
    Personally I really like Windows XP - its blazingly fast and highly tweakable - not to mention rock steady - I've been using it for well over a year now and suffered a grand total of one crash - and that was due to a hard disk failure, so not exactly window's fault :) Further to that with a little work you can get the thing booting in no time (my XP box boots in 30s, the lions share of which being initialising hardware at the BIOS level, such as the RAID hardware and stuff) - this is far faster than my work Mac does

    In terms of out of the box solutions Macs are probably better, although not as fast, as the equivalent companies in the PC world but an enthusiast can build a machine that looks as good and will smoke any Mac for a comparable price or less.

    One thing I have noticed as someone used to working in both worlds - a lot of Mac enthusiasts seem to attribute everyone using PCs as ignorance of the alternatives, or that they cling to some half forgotten bias about ancient OS versions and mac hardware - which is true in a lot of cases - however I have seen the exact same problems in most of the mac community too - an awful lot of people talk about how unreliable Windows is which is frankly not true - not anymore at least, or the MHz myth, which again, is true, but can't account for the huge difference in clock speeds between the best Mac processor and the best PC one.

    Both platforms have their pros and their cons - personally I like both and will continue to use both - I am buying a mac laptop as I have need for a laptop, and the sort of things I need it for I find a mac is better suited than a PC one, plus they look extremely nice too, which doesn't hurt, however my main machine at home is a home built AMD rig which is far superior then any mac system I have used for my needs - mainly gaming and watching movies and stuff.

    My work is the same, I work for a university department, which use a lot of macs for various reasons (Psychology departments all seem to be mac-based in this country) but also a lot of PCs are used for various reasons, mainly involving serious number-crunching.

    A lot of people don't like Microsoft, this is very true and if there were a PC OS that was better - yet STILL DID EVERYTHING THE USER WANTED then an awful lot of people would use that, however there isn't one - Linux has potential but isn't even close to being good enough yet - its fantastic for server appications but isn't close to being desktop ready yet in my opinion.

    Anyway, thats my opinion :)

    Oh and SilvorX - NOONE likes windows Me - it was an absolute turd of an OS :)
  25. gotohamish macrumors 65816


    Jul 15, 2001
    When you buy a computer, be in Windows or MacOS X, you going to spend a fair amount of cash. $400+

    Now, windows crashes all the time, we all know that. Whether your machine cost $400 or $3500, THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!

    Since the day I installed 10.1 (currenly running 10.2.3) on my G4 500, it has NEVER CRASHED!

    That's not "amazing" and "unbelievable" - it's just damn right!

    Window's is awful (can you say "C drive"?).

    I want to build my own computer, but don't want to run windows, and am a little scared of Linux as a life long mac user. I know you can build G4s, but I have a G4 500 that's okay.

    So here's a question... if i upgrade the CPU in my tower to a Dual Ghtz, can I use my old 500Htz processor in a "white box" mac with mac motherboard off ebay etc?:confused:

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