Do you think ATI will have an answer to nvidia's 6800?

Discussion in 'Games' started by ijimk, Jul 21, 2004.

  1. ijimk macrumors 6502a

    ijimk

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    #1
    Just wondering if ATI will come out with a better card at same or lower price of nvidias? Which company is better on mac? I had really good luck with nvidia on my PC. Do you think the 6800 price will lower in 6 months?1 year?

    I think the 6800 is a great card i just dont like the size. It takes up 2 slots instead of 1. I think this will be more compact in a year of 6 months. Maybe ATI will have something smaller and more powerful.

    WHO SHOULD I GO WITH ATI OR NVIDIA THIS IS SO HARD!!!!

    I need it for games and video editing and dont want to BLOW my money away. Please help!
     
  2. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #2
    I think since Apple has basically complete control over their systems, they need to space the AGP slot away from the PCI slots to keep it from blocking one. Video Editing has very little to do with the video card (but will probably change when Tiger's released - dunno about the CoreImage and how it will work). 2D rendering will be the same on either an ATi or Nvidia. Right now with the 6800 I'd say Nvidia. But this is bound to change when ATI releases something new. Gotta love competition.
     
  3. invaLPsion macrumors 65816

    invaLPsion

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    #3
    ATi is the only graphics company that actually sells their cards for macs. There is no doubt in my mind that the X800pro will come out for mac in the next few months. Probably at $399 or $499.
     
  4. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #4
    Nvidia doesn't?
     
  5. zakee00 macrumors regular

    zakee00

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    #5
    no, apple makes nvidia cards. nvidia just supplies the chips (i think). if you arent in a hurry, wait until a mac version of the x800 XT comes out (pc version is already out)...proformance is pretty much equal to the 6800 ultra, and it dosn't take two slots. but then again, it could be a while because pc versions of the x800 xt are virtually nonexistent.
     
  6. Maclarny macrumors 6502

    Maclarny

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    #6
    On the Mac platform we typically see one maker dominate the high-high end of the graphics cards. Right now, that niche is filled by Nvidia. However, because of the price point of the 6800U DDL ($599) I believe that there may be room for a Radeon X800 Pro priced around $400. However, this may not be for a while due to the recent release of the 9800XT for Mac.
     
  7. Maclarny macrumors 6502

    Maclarny

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    #7
    If you are very serious about video editing then Nvidia would probably be your choice since the new 6800 line comes with a special on-board video processor for editing. However, you proabably won't notice much of a difference.
     
  8. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

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    #8
    they already have one...the X800. If it ever get's Mac support is the real question. Doubtful since they seem dedicated to the PCI Express architechture, and seem uninterested in an AGP8x version.

    6800 is a better overall mac card however, since we use OpenGL and the 6800 is an OpenGL beast.
     
  9. windowsblowsass macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    no nvidia doesnt make any of their on cards they design the cards and supply the chips and plans the retailer then builds the chips where as ati builds in house
     
  10. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #10
    The X800 is ATI's answer to the 6800. However, the X800 comes in two models: PRO and XT. The main difference is the number of piplines and memory speed. The 9800 has 8 pipelines. The X800 PRO has 12 and the X800 XT has 16.

    The nvidia card also comes in two varities. However, during gaming the X800 PRO meets or beats the high-end 6800.

    The real difference between the 9800's and the X800 in terms of performance is the resolutions. For instance, the X800 barely beats the 9800 at 1024 or less resolutions. However, at 1280 or 1600, the X800 KILLS the 9800 XT.

    Also the X800 supports 3dc, which compresses normal maps and allows for 4 times the textures in the same bandwidth. The X800 also comes with 256 MB GDDR3 @ 450 Mhz.

    nvidia has gone the route of vertex shader 3.0. This has the possibilty to make the 6800 perform better in real world, if the app supports it. Although, Doom3 and HL2 will support 3dc. Far cry supports both.

    The X800 can't be far off on the mac. I put one in my peecee, and it is awesome. I play far cry with full details at 1280x1024 and average 50 fps.

    Plus, the X800 doesn't block a pci slot and requires 150 less Watts of power!!!
     
  11. Bigheadache macrumors 6502

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    #11
    I may be wrong but i think shader 3.0 is a directX feature rather than openGL.

    Anyway, I think the NVidia 6800 is actually a better choice for Apple to go with than the X800. The X800 series tends to be a bit stronger on gaming performance, whereas the 6800 has a stronger feature set. On a Mac (never really a popular gaming platform to start with), alot of the 6800 features might actually be useful to the graphic designers and media creators who prefer Macs. These include 128bit FP color precision (as opposed to 96bit on X800) and HDR, and I think the onchip video processor is a bit more advanced.
     
  12. Littleodie914 macrumors 68000

    Littleodie914

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    #12
    Nonexistent?

    Really? What makes you say that? At our local Best Buy, the shelves are cluttered (well not cluttered, there are 5 or 6) with the X800's, while there's not a 6800 in sight. But I do agree with the delay on the mac version... At least it's nice that you can configure the new G5's with a 6800! :D (shame i can't stuff one of those into my ibook... hah!)
     
  13. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #13
    As my PC buddies would say, an nVidia card is preferable for OpenGL (what Macs and PCs use for rendering) and the ATI is preferable for DirectX/Direct3D (what PCs use for rendering).

    However, I found nVidia support to be pretty crappy. We've had the same GeForce2MX for about a year and half on the iMacs and eMacs. The GeForce4MX is just false advertising. It's slightly better than the GF2MX is some ways, but nothing like the GeForce4. The GeForce3 sorta came and went. The GeForce4Ti was in my opinion, a great card, but short-lived. Now we've got a 5200 in the low-end G5s and a mobile version in the low-end PBs.

    ATI on the other hand, once the ATI 9000 was released, it was the gold standard for any serious gamer. A card that has lasted quite a while. Early support sucked with the Bondi Blue iMacs (transparency problems in the chip itself!), but now, ATI is doing great. We've got the Radeon Enabler for overclocking and many other graphical controls. Now we've got the 9800 Pro, XT, and SE. Excellent choices. Not as good as the PC's current offerings (X800), but it's something for now.

    I like ATI's offering a lot more at the moment. The 6800 is definitely the best card money can buy for now on the Mac. I see a price drop when the PC's Ultra drops in price, too.

    Apple really needs to introduce PCI-Express sometime soon. Preferably in the iMacs and give then upgradability ;), but any Mac at the beginning of next year would be good. They also should throw in that parallel graphics system (or whatever it's called). Both nVidia and Alienware demoed technology where you can plug in two graphics card in two separate PCI-Express and they run in parallel. Performance literally doubles with those technologies. It'd be a sweet addition, but probably hike up Mac prices even higher.

    Do I see an X800 in the future? Maybe not the Platinum Edition because that is basically the 6800 Ultra's equal. Perhaps the X800 Pro version in future G5s, but a PE would kill sales of nVidia which would not bode well for Apple.
     
  14. FriarCrazy macrumors regular

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    #14
    Does Apple even care?

    Is it just me, or does Apple not even seem to care about their video cards. For PC's, both nVidia and ATI are ALWAYS releasing driver updates for their cards that make them more stable and increase game performance. As a PC user, I am always looking forward to driver updates for my video card, as game performance can be significantly increased with an update. As a new person in the Mac realm, I have noticed a significant lack of regular updates for graphics cards. From what I've gathered from Mac forums, apple video drivers are just not that great. As a recent Mac convert, this is one of the only things that turns me away from Apple. There seem to be many mac gamers out there, why dosen't Apple respect these people more?
     
  15. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Well, obviously gaming is not Apple's main concern, so they update pretty slowly. Those 10.x.x updates usually do include OpenGL enhancements and an occasional driver update. However, I haven't seen anything that makes significant updates. It's usually one or two frames more gained. You'd expect it to add up, but it really doesn't. With Panther, some games became more playable on certain machines, but that's as significant as it gets.

    The Mac gaming community is really tiny in comparison to the 22 million MacOS X users. Looking at how much one game usually sells, it's about 20,000 to 100,000, usually 40,000 to 80,000 for a good game. That's less than 1% of the whole Mac market! A niche market within a niche market. Not very appealing to Apple to make any changes. If those numbers grew to even half a million units sold for a game, that would create enough of an uproar to get Apple to work vigorously for gamers and probably even cause PC users to switch with PC game sales dwindling.

    For your gaming needs, I'd still keep around your PC box or consoles. The Mac is not a very good replacement for gaming machines.

    You do have a sense of security and a peace of mind that your hardware won't fail, but I doubt that's enough to get PC gamers switching. Perhaps the only thing you can say to a PC gamer to get them to switch is that the Mac has the potential to become a better gaming machine if there was much more switchers, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
     
  16. smurphur macrumors member

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    #16
    This 2 video card technology that nVidia is using is the SLI thing that 3DFX did with their voodoo2s. Apple doesn't need to do anything but have 2 PCI-Express slots, and the video cards do the rest. ATI is also coming out with a technology that does a similiar thing with having 2 video cards run. I agree that Apple needs to get PCI-Express in their systems, as it seems that is where video cards are going now.
     
  17. Converted2Truth macrumors 6502a

    Converted2Truth

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    #17
    The X800 is going for ~480 right now on the PC side. Expect 100 bucks more on the mac platform. That price range is a joke! the 9800 pro se is retailed at 400 right now. If they retail the 9800XT, expect 499. If they retail the X800, expect 499-599 easy.
     
  18. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #18
    If ATI released a X800 today, I'd expect either no price difference at all or only about $50.

    The 6800 Ultra on the Mac is very similar in price to the 6800 Ultra on the PC. I can't emphasize this enough. I hope it's a sign that cards on the Mac are getting cheaper at a similar rate, but the starting prices are about equal now.
     
  19. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

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    #19
    apparently you emphasized it too much. the mac and pc 6800's ARE NOTHING ALIKE!!! try for one, the DUAL "dual link" DVI connections, required to drive a 30" lcd. The PC version DOES NOT HAVE THESE. Also, the PC version requires additonal molex connectors, the Mac version DOES NOT, it taps the ADC connection on the motherboard. If ATI released a X800 today, it wouldn't work in a Mac, it's that simple. We don't have PCI Express, and it's not designed for AGP. Keep on dreaming buddy.
     
  20. Converted2Truth macrumors 6502a

    Converted2Truth

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    #20
    I don't know how many times i've told people this, but here it goes again...

    The 9800XT blocks the adjacent PCI-X slot too. The board layouts are similiar on the 9800XT and the X800. Chances are, the x800 will block the slot too. And personally, i think apple does it on purpose. Why? because all 4 slots in that compartment of the G5 can consume a max of 90watts. I don't know if that includes the ADC power push though.... so... acording to apple specs, the ATI 9800XT consumes ~75 watts (not sure if that spec includes pushing the ADC either... they don't say). So that leaves only 15 watts for 3 pci-x slots. Guys! There isn't enough power for a high powered GPU card and all three pci-x cards!

    There's no way the X800 will only take up one slot IMHO.
     
  21. Converted2Truth macrumors 6502a

    Converted2Truth

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    #21
    I've looked really close at the picture of the Mac 6800 Ultra card, and can't find 'clear' proof that it has no molex connector. They call it a 'kit' too. ..which makes you wonder what else is in the box.

    Also, the first release of the X800 was AGP 8x. so it would work.
     
  22. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #22
    My thoughts exactly except I doubt that picture is the real card. And there are definitely X800s for AGP slots, as stated.

    But, either way, wouldn't modifying a card for Apple's specs cost more to re-design and produce? BrianKonarsMac, you're just proving my point.
     
  23. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #23
    Actually, I'm looking at one right now, and it doesn't block a pci slot on the standard ATX board. I don't see why the mac version would be bigger. I have the gigabyte version with a larger fan and bigger heatsinks on the memory, and it still doesn't block a pci slot.

    The whole thing is only a bit thicker than an ipod.
     
  24. Golem macrumors 6502

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    #24
    PC Doom 3 Benchmarks

    http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQy

    Considering doom 3 will probably push my video card the hardest of anything I buy in the next year its a hard blow to ATI.

    Pity all I have is the lowly 5200 that that Apple gives us with the 1.8.

    Why dont they give us something just a little bit better? Another $50 spent on the video card by Apple would have at least got me something only 2 years old.

    And while I can justify spending 3k Aussie on upgrading my machine every 18 months to 2 years,spending another 1k every 2 years to replace the video card with the top of the line card just for better game performance is beyond my budget.
     
  25. Converted2Truth macrumors 6502a

    Converted2Truth

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    #25
    The only thing i can think of is that apple's slots are not distanced the same as an atx mobo. Have you seen a 9800XT on an atx mobo? ...it doesn't block the next slot in a pc, but lo and behold, it does on a mac. It sure would be nice if the X800 didn't block the adjacent pci-x slot, but i just don't think that is going to happen.

    Whatever the size of the card, I still think ATI should bring the X800 to the mac. They've got the loyalty of so many mac users that I'm sure they'll make an impressive profit.
     

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