I'm hoping we get TRIM support in OSX Lion. I'd love to put one of those OCZ Revodrive v2's in my system 
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Do you think we'll see TRIM support in OSX Lion?
- Thread starter Woodcrest64
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Apple is transitioning towards SSD's as their main storage medium. Apple has a vested interest in prolonging the life of SSD's.
Apple will build TRIM support into Lion.
Apple will build TRIM support into Lion.
No they don't. The only vested interest apple has, is that they sell them.
While they certainly may, there is no proof and to expect it more of a leap of faith at this point.
I'm of the opinion that apple will not add this functionality into 10.7.
Apple tends to get rid of old technology they tend to believe obsolete. While conventional drives will still be implemented, it will only be a matter of time that Apple will let go of mechanical drives and eventually go all SSD drives.
I'm thinking maybe the trim commands or some such, will be eventually be done by the drive controller itself. I'm thinking I've heard something similar implemented in the sand-force controller.
I saw this artikel OSX and trim support
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7
Seeing as how the new MacBook Air is shipping with an SSD that does its own garbage collection (as they should've done from the get go), they would have no desire to add such things to the OS. Just my two yen.
OSX doesn't need TRIM because:
(A) It's built into the firmware of modern SSD's so no need for it at the OS level.
(B) HFS+ takes good care of SSD's that don't have TRIM at the firmware level and theres no appreciable drop in performance.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7
EDIT: I feel safe in putting a SSD in a Snow Leopard system, I'll be getting one soon for my Mac Pro.
(A) It's built into the firmware of modern SSD's so no need for it at the OS level.
(B) HFS+ takes good care of SSD's that don't have TRIM at the firmware level and theres no appreciable drop in performance.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7
EDIT: I feel safe in putting a SSD in a Snow Leopard system, I'll be getting one soon for my Mac Pro.
no point
i replaced the old hdd with ssd. very happy with that as are all my collegues that done the same. not one bit botherd about trim support. mayb nice feature but in real life outside benchmark labs who cares ..? ssd rules anyway. trim or no trim.
i replaced the old hdd with ssd. very happy with that as are all my collegues that done the same. not one bit botherd about trim support. mayb nice feature but in real life outside benchmark labs who cares ..? ssd rules anyway. trim or no trim.
No one is bothered about lack of TRIM at the beginning. However, will you feel the same in a couple of months from now when your SSD runs much slower than now, perhaps even slower than your old HDD?
I have had 3 different ssd's in my macbook since i bought it. the first was a 64GB kingston, the second was a 50GB owc with 28% over provisioning, and my current one is a 120GB owc with 7% over provisioning. i used the kingston for about 2 months, i used the 50GB for about 4 months, and the current 120GB for about the same. i have not had even a stutter out of either of them, and i am not "gentle" by any means. i am constantly installing, and uninstalling apps, reinstalling the os several times, copy my drive clone back to the ssd HUNDREDS of times. while some of that may be due to the over provisioning, and built in "trim" of the owc drives, i think i gave them a real workout. oh, and the kingston is currently in my wife's windows 7 laptop. with no "tweaks" just a typical windows install. and she also adds a deletes music to it on a daily basis. i have spent the last 6 months trying to figure out if my drive would die without trim. i spent the last week getting trim functioning on my ubuntu install now, and after all this, i decided to just forget about it. while trim is nice to have, i dont feel it is needed on "current" ssd's. i have had a "cheap" kingston drive, and 2 "top end" owc drives. none of them have slowed down even a little. the kingston is over a year old now, has had mac installed 12ish times, and windows installed 6 or so times. it currently gets a whopping 2 MB/s read slower than when i got it, and writes as fast as the day i bought it. YMMV good luck
I think TRIM support will be added into Lion.
Apple sells devices with SSDs installed, and yet they do not support the most important tool for keeping an SSD performing at its peak... Linux (from 2.6.33 onwards) and Windows 7 both support TRIM, so I believe OS X will in 10.7.
Apple sells devices with SSDs installed, and yet they do not support the most important tool for keeping an SSD performing at its peak... Linux (from 2.6.33 onwards) and Windows 7 both support TRIM, so I believe OS X will in 10.7.
I'm willing to bet they will add TRIM support to the next OS, Just in time for all SSD's on the market to have the feature on chip and make OS based TRIM useless, But knowing that its a common mis-conception that there is no other way for TRIM to work (a lot of people think there is no on SSD methods for TRIM that work better) my guess is apple will add it in if anything as a marketing tool... (Gotta keep up with the Windows7 advertising teams after all.)
Quite a few people I know have been running OCZ drives for close to or over a year now. None of them have yet to report any slow downs at all.
TRIM is absolutely needed for SSD disks. Even SSD manufacturers warn about that and some of then include info about the disk lifetime.
Currently, on Mac forums, there is an urban legend claiming that SSD is not needed, and that Sanforce chipset already do it with no OS intervention. What a coincidence! Those claims are only found on mac forums. Come on guys, you can't find a single piece of info about those claims in the Sandforce website. Should we think that now Sandforce chipsets know about handling on the fly HFS+, EXT3/EXT4, XFS, ReiserFS, NTFS, EXFAT..... or whatever format file is found on the disk???? Really? If so, why can't this info be found on Sandforce website? It would be an impressive marketing claim
Again, TRIM is needed for SSD disks, and Apple should have implemented this technology a long time ago. I hope it will be done by the time Lion is released. In the meantime, i won't use SSD inside my mac.
Currently, on Mac forums, there is an urban legend claiming that SSD is not needed, and that Sanforce chipset already do it with no OS intervention. What a coincidence! Those claims are only found on mac forums. Come on guys, you can't find a single piece of info about those claims in the Sandforce website. Should we think that now Sandforce chipsets know about handling on the fly HFS+, EXT3/EXT4, XFS, ReiserFS, NTFS, EXFAT..... or whatever format file is found on the disk???? Really?
If so, why can't this info be found on Sandforce website? It would be an impressive marketing claim Again, TRIM is needed for SSD disks, and Apple should have implemented this technology a long time ago. I hope it will be done by the time Lion is released. In the meantime, i won't use SSD inside my mac.
TRIM isn't needed for ssd's which is exactly what those ssd manufacturers say. What is needed is a mechanism to clear out data that is no longer being used because a filled ssd will slowdown tremendously (you simply want to make sure it is as empty as you can get it). It doesn't matter if it's done by something inside the ssd (nand launderer aka garbage collection) or something in cooperation between ssd and OS (aka TRIM) as long as it's done. Both have their pro's and cons. The only biggest difference is in when these mechanisms kick in. For garbage collection the machine needs to be idle which can be a problem. TRIM works whenever the OS actually deletes a file (like when you empty the trash, NOT when you hit cmd-backspace!). Which is why we need TRIM in RAID systems (RAID and idle...they do not mix well) and that in turn requires TRIM support in ssd, os AND RAID controllers. The latter is currently the problem.
These claims can be found on several different sites like Anandtech, OCZ, tweakers.net, etc. None of those are Apple-oriented sites, they are just tech sites. The need for TRIM is something you only find at Macrumors due to a very big misconception about clearing out memory cells.
Again, TRIM is not a silver bullet and is not needed for ssd's to work properly. What TRIM accomplishes can be done by other technologies as well (you know, like some saying with Rome in it...).
These claims can be found on several different sites like Anandtech, OCZ, tweakers.net, etc. None of those are Apple-oriented sites, they are just tech sites. The need for TRIM is something you only find at Macrumors due to a very big misconception about clearing out memory cells.
Again, TRIM is not a silver bullet and is not needed for ssd's to work properly. What TRIM accomplishes can be done by other technologies as well (you know, like some saying with Rome in it...).
Or ya know, any forum that knows what GC is. Sure TRIM support would be nice, but fact is I - personally - know multiple people with OCZ SSDs that have owned them for around or over a year; those people have yet to report any slowdowns whatsoever.
Any hardware Trim would need to know about EVERY possible instaled filesystem in the disk, and that's what's really hard to implement (and to believe). Again, Sandforce can't claim that, and you won't find any related claim on their website. Wouldn't be Sandforce interested in publishing such an impressive publicity?
Refering to what people report "at a guess", i don't think this is reliable if no data is provided. And there are already reviews saying (with provided data) that SSD without Trim DO loose speed as cells start dying (manufacturers also warn about that). Of course this stronlgy depends on how you are using your mac. Only installing apps from time to time with very few deletions would increase lifetime even without Trim (maybe this is the reason why people don't report speed decrease?). But an intensive use with lots of deletions would decrease lifetime very fast (and here the the intensive journaling that HFS+ performs can be an added problem). In fact, other systems are developing new filesystems with less journaling in order to adapt to SSD disks.
Anyway, whenever it is needed or it is only pure marketing, please Apple, implement Trim. Ty.
Refering to what people report "at a guess", i don't think this is reliable if no data is provided. And there are already reviews saying (with provided data) that SSD without Trim DO loose speed as cells start dying (manufacturers also warn about that). Of course this stronlgy depends on how you are using your mac. Only installing apps from time to time with very few deletions would increase lifetime even without Trim (maybe this is the reason why people don't report speed decrease?). But an intensive use with lots of deletions would decrease lifetime very fast (and here the the intensive journaling that HFS+ performs can be an added problem). In fact, other systems are developing new filesystems with less journaling in order to adapt to SSD disks.
Anyway, whenever it is needed or it is only pure marketing, please Apple, implement Trim. Ty.