Interesting comments, you obviously know alot about meditation.
>>> Like anthing else...if one dedicates multiple hours per day to a practice, study and discipline, one generally attains some degree of mastery in that pursuit. "Yogic" meditation has been that for me for the last 30 years..living in ashrams in India and Nepal for long periods of time, etc. One's understanding of the potential of the practice evolves(!) through the practice. I was a militant athiest when I began TM at 15 years old in 1976.
Shamus:
Through this thread, I am merely trying to introduce people to meditation, in whichever form they please. If they believe that it is connected with God, or religious practices, then they are free to do so. That is the fantastic thing about meditation, it is so versatile and flexible.
>>> And i commend you for doing so! Meditation is a path to immeasurable "wealth". I sincerely hope I'm not giving the impression that I feel there is only one way to practice meditation...far from it. I've hung out with whirling dervishes and Sufi mystics to naked sadhus in cremation grounds.
Shamus:
I cant understand why whether meditation is religious or not would be a hotly debated case, because I believe it should be up to the person meditating to make the decision.
>>> And in the case of "TM", that is precisely the point. While it isn't "wrong" to use the terms "Transcendental Meditation" as an umbrella over a wide variety of meditation practices...generally...in "meditation circles"..."TM" refers to something very specific. Big topic to cover in an forum!, but...as to that specific practice called "TM" invented by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi...he is teaching a form of meditation that uses mantras called bija mantras...*potentially* very powerful, but FULL of "religious" connections. But since the mantras do not have semantic meaning...anyone who hasn't studied and / or been initiated into a tantric tradition will not realize their "meaning" on the surface. Here's the rub. TM teachers tell people the mantras are meaningless sounds with NO religious connections whatsoever. By not telling the truth, TM teachers eliminate the possibility..as you say, for the person..."to make a decision"...an informed decision. They make a decision based on a lie. Back in the 70's, the TM org was making a LOT of money..based on this "non-religious" form of meditation...and were even teaching TM in the schools. Some Christian groups found out of TM's "heritage"..the mantras, the puja(!) and freaked out. They took the TM org to court in New Jersey and won the case EASILY...showing TM to be a religious practice. The judge said, "putting a sign on a cow that says "pig", does not make a cow, a pig." Many people felt betrayed and lied to..and they were right. Similar to my Lord's Prayer analogy...through TM, people were invoking Hindu goddesses...unknowingly. I didn't mind...I liked it.
I can site innumerable examples that prove TM's religious connections if you would like..but I'll spare you now. The tantric traditions are like universal religions, but that is *my* understanding. It isn't right to impose that on others or mislead through lies.
Shamus:
There are many forms of meditation. I am sure not all NEED to be taught by a meditation guru, because I have simply read books and articles on the internet, and I am able to meditate.
>>> It is an easy argument to make..that meditation is natural to everyone..that one can learn from books, etc, etc. (Then again, you are already turning to "outside" sources to learn..aren't you???) And though there are exceptions, the VAST, VAST, VAST majority of people will eventually see the absolute necessity of a "guru"...ooooh...the "g" word.
Here's my two cents...the path to realizing the Truth of Existence(!)...to master one's mind, etc... is the most challenging path in life there is..yet no one hesitates to acknowledge the benefit of going to college to master lesser challenges. Yet..for Self Realization..the hardest thing...suddenly it's..."i don't need a teacher." To master Physics is FAR easier than Self Realization...doesn't that say to you.. how much more wise it would be to seek the guidance of one who has attained the goal of Self Realization? What does it say to you...that 99.999999% of every recognized, Self Realized Master in India's/Nepal's history strongly(!) recommended having a Guru..a teacher? Honestly, the issue really is that people do not understand the Guru/disciple relationship..they see it as slavery, etc. That is non-sense. Spend one minute with Ammachi or Karunamayi..and you will know what i'm talking about. On the spiritual path of Self Realization..one must choose whether to embrace new age, self-help, Yoga Journal magazine meditation..OR.... radical transformation meditation. Do you know the difference? I think you might really enjoy "What is Enlightenment" magazine. Ken Wilber...wow.
(On that note, I will add that you would probably get more out of meditation if you were taught.) I live about 300km from the nearest 'big city', (good old Australia), so unfortunately have not been able to take lessons on meditation.
