Does Apple Give a Damn???

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by keithcobbett, Feb 15, 2002.

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Does Apple give a damn???

  1. Yes they do. Get a clue!!!!!

    9 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. I don't think so. They always forget about the big picture.

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. keithcobbett macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Hillsborough, NH
    #1
    This is a very interested look at the world of Apple. This guy makes a lot of good points. What do you guys think??? (And no, I am no peecee weenee who is trying to bash Apple. I am a hard time Apple follower who will never leave the platform. Regardless.)

    http://news.com.com/2010-1074-838426.html
     
  2. TazGuido macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Location:
    minneapolis
    #2
    although I don't totally agree with the assesmet given by article, I have to wonder if some of suggestions are not true-- I am a mac newbie-- I am simply amazed at how much more fun it is to use mac's OS than using windows-- I believe that a lot of people don't know what they are missing and the rest do know what they are missing but how do "they" change it-- should these people run out and buy a mac and feel like they are going to change the pc run world forever or are they going to succumb to the realization that the corporate world is pc dominated and they feel as if they have no choice-- I wish the computer that I use at work was a mac but the fact is, it isn't- and it is out of my control-----sorry, my point is, why doesn't mac get more involved with incorporating itself into the business world? does apple want to?
    if they wanted to do it, would they be successful? or do people complain about the pc world but really like being the outsider looking in knowing they have a superior product and LOL all the time? i do wonder, i wish apple would take that final step-- they do have better products, they do think different, but is it time to start thinking the same?
    i am sure there are a lot of better opinions than mine on this subject and i can't wait to hear them
    :) :) :rolleyes:
     
  3. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Europe
    #3
    I never complain,

    Does Microsoft give a damn?
    Does Sun give a damn?
    Does SGI give a damn?
    Does Sony give a damn?
    Does Adobe give a damn?

    No! All the companys are the same.

    Ensign
     
  4. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    Miami
    #4
    Be honest

    I do not want to fall again discusing why Apple doesn't have a bigger market share.... but looks like here we go again to develop one of thouse cheese forums once again.

    The only REAL problem with Apple is price, is more expensive than regular PC's. Ok, we know about the features and how reliable they are, blah, blah, blah. But Apple wants to create their own market by their rules.

    If Apple drop their prices 20% they would have 15% of the market in no time (I'm just throwing number to the air). Why Apple doesn't want to do that? they know their business and I'm sure they do not feel they have to do it any time soon, period. 5% of any market in the US that envolves the entire country and some others too is a very good business.

    I would give a damn once in a while too
     
  5. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Ca
    #5
    Good points save one:

    Saying that Macs are bad for IS departments is ludicrous. Macs are MUCH easier to support and FAR more reliable. I think if IS departments have a problem with Macs, it's their own fault for maintaining **** networks rather than transitioning to a more stable platform. Most IS is Lazy, confused and rather embarrassed by the time and money they have to continually invest in M$ training and HW compatability arcana. Perhaps they get paid on commission based on how many problems they fix.

    That having been said, Apple HAS totally ignored the oppertunity it has in this market. How many IT/IS guys do you know that would KILL for machines that don't behave like neurology ICU invalids? How many would kill just to have reliable "Plug and Play"?

    Not holding your IT/IS department responsible for finding and implementing the BEST solution, rather than the common solution is very foolish indeed. To pay through the nose for these guys and know that the solutions provided are "safe" rather than secure and reliable? Rediculous.
     
  6. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #6
    So blatently backword looking...

    ...that the article is an embarrassment.

    This article is written as though Mac OS X was never conceived! Of course Apple gives a damn! If they are at all serious about expanding past their current ~5% market share (which they seem to be: remember 5 down 95 to go?), then they must give a damn about getting into the networking world.

    But wether or not they give a damn is a bit of a moot point with the advent of OS X. Wether or not they care about making OS X an easily networked OS, it comes for free with a UNIX operating system. All they had to do is to compile Samba, nfs and the rest of the networking protocols and tools and they got it for free. I've had my OS X TiBook in a Windows, Unix, and Mac network environment and they all work perfectly.

    Contrary to what the author says, Apple's digital hub strategy is only one part of their overall strategy. With OS X Apple is moving into the modern age of networking and stability and beyond. The author should catch up to the times and take a look at the real future of Apple: Mac OS X. The lack of knowledge he displays in ignoring this is appalling.

    Matthew
     
  7. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #7
    Re: Good points save one:

    Can I get an AMEN to that!?!?!?!?!!!! I am in IS, and love supporting the 240+ Mac's at the location I work at. I get about 95% of my grief from the 40 or so peecee's that are here.

    We are using (now at least) 100Mb autosensing network infrastructure that has made our lives easier. When the conversion was done, ALL the Mac's were able connect the next work day. Many of the peecee's required a visit to get them to go onto the network.

    I have a G4 on my desk here, plus the two at home. True, I do have a peecee at home, and need one at work for some things, I still love working on the Mac's. The peecee at work is only so that I can support the users via a phone call and walk them through things. The peecee at home, is for games either not, or not yet, available on the Mac.

    At the end of the day, I go home to my TiBook and relax :D. Occasionally I will fire up the peecee for some major carnage and bloodletting, but that is about it.
     
  8. Timothy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #8
    My Pet Theory...

    To argue that IS/IT guys want an easier to manage computer entirely misses the reality of human nature. First, and foremost, what IS/IT guys want is to be needed. Computers and the IT department are their fiefdom. When something goes wrong, they get to swoop in as the Knight in shining armor to fix the problem, and save the damsel in distress. Threaten to make the overall experience easier, and you threaten the very existence of the IT/IS guy. He will not stand for this.

    In the early days, the IT/IS guys were composed of your basic computer geeks. They loved command line operations. It was a language that only they understood, and this gave them importance and purpose. With an Apple on her desk, the IT/IS guy wasn't needed.

    So, when the computer buying decisions were being made, they were being made by these very same IT/IS guys. And their choice was natural. Apple never had a chance at this.

    Skip ahead 20 years. The market is what it is. Apple is a niche computer company. So what? They are a healthy business who turns out great products. I buy their products because they work for me. I like pluralism. I like living in a society where there are choices. Marketshare is proving not to be as important as everyone makes it out to be. Sure, Apple can grow their own customer base, and this will be a good thing. But, there is no chance that they will take the market away from MS in any significant numbers in the next 20 years. So what. They can and will be a successful company regardless.

    And, speaking of price. The last thing I want Apple to do is to cheapen the components and design of their hardware so that they can sell a box as cheaply as Dell or the other computer companies. These companies routinely use sub-standard materials so as to get to a certain price point. We saw a move in this direction under Gil Amelio, and I think it was disastrous for Apple. Just as Mercedes Benz should never beat out Hundai on price, Apple should never compete on price alone. I'll pay more for the better machine, thank you.
     
  9. cplmd macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana
    #9
    All interesting discussions.......

    This article was ment to get people talking and thinking and it seems to have done that!!!

    As to IS/IT departments and what they do - they need someone to call when things go wrong - and they do - mac or pc. Does apple offer this - AppleCare is less than helpful over the years that I have needed them.

    But the real problem to my mind is SERVER SOFTWARE - I have a small medical practice that has been only mac as CLIENT platforms since 1991 when I started practice. There hasn't been a great deal of medical software to choose from but what we have does what we need and does it easily. And the company supports it well.

    The other thing we need is good reliable groupware. What do we use?

    MS Windows 2000 with Exchange.

    What other choices are their in the mac world??

    Now understand, I'd love a Mac OS X server with groupware as easy to set up as Exchange and be able to have clients interface with it like Outlook or Entourage. I don't want it to cost an arm and a leg or require an IT department to administer it for the 5 people that use it and it want to be able to access from a hand held over a wireless network as well as a wired desktop.

    Now microsoft can give me that out of the box - would i switch to Apple if they offered that capability? In a heartbeat, but insted I get from Apple notices that I can burn a DVD or sort my photos or organize a music collection. Well, I have done all those and am now ready to get to work again. What do I need, EVERYDAY? A groupware server that doesn't cost an arm and a leg or require an IT department to manage and can be accessed over a network on a handheld/mobile device.

    I am not the only person asking for this - if Apple cares they will listen and do something about it.

    Or we can stay in the reality distortion zone and think all I do is sit in front of a computer screen all day and sort photos, burn DVDs and rip CDs.
     
  10. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Location:
    secret city
    #10
    Re: Be honest


    im sure youve heard about exotic cars...

    they are not cheap. Apple is the exotic computer of the computer world. why do people have a hard time understanding this concpet. anyways think about it. about market share...umm im sure the italian exoctic cars have a lower market share then average cars in general. something to be said about that.
     
  11. cplmd macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana
    #11
    I just don't get the price complaints....

    I just bought a Sony MSX1, burns DVDs, FM tuner, Memory Stick and MiniDisc for my son - $3000 -
    a simpler model - burns DVDs fire wire input ethernet - $1900 no monitor
    I also got a new iMac for me - burns DVDs, fire wire ethernet - $1800 with LCD

    where is the price difference????
    get a windows box with firewire and ethernet AND a LCD display for under $2000 - i think Apple has addressed the price/performance issue once and for all with the current line up.
    :confused:
     
  12. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Europe
    #12
    Re: Re: Good points save one:

    so in other words a 100bs-t switch?

    We have a highly Highly Sophisticatd Dowacky or a 1000bs-t copper network which the macs all worked on but the ****in windows didn't work on!

    Ensign
     
  13. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Location:
    secret city
    #13
    yeah...

    generally thier i line (ibook, imac) is for the average domestic use...thier powerline (powerbook,powermac) is for the specialized proffesional, serious artist..whatever.... they usuall pack more punch in the powerline for this reason...(however as of this spring things are getting a little blury..wont be for long) thats why the powerline usually costs more then the i line. this is why you see most people complaining about the prices because they are refering to the prices on the poweline as oppose to the iline. make sense? i hope so..im not that good at explaining this stuff. im trying though. if one has a complaint about the apple prices then the imac or ibook is for them...usually.
     
  14. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #14
    Re: Good points save one:

    Unfortunately this hasn't always been the case. For a long time Macs were much harder to support, and LAN options between PCs and Macs were all but impossible to integrate successfully. And the solutions that tried to integrate the two were themselves a horror to support.

    A stigma like that is really hard to shake, especially among conservative IT folks. Too often Macs are still seen as computers for the MTV generation, far too hip to play nicely in a corporate setting. It's like how in many organizations the genius in ragged jeans and a tee shirt will not be hired while the average joe in a suit will. Typical corporate mentality dictates a desire for toeing the line, following the rules and being totally predictable. Talent is, in many places, less important than discipline.

    And that's been Apple's problem with IT. Not that I would change a thing about Apple's approach.
     
  15. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Location:
    secret city
    #15
    Re: Re: Good points save one:


    hey good point there. its unfortunate that most people care more about the orthodox discipline mentality over talent and the genius mentality. most pioneers and innovative revolutionary people have been less about discipline and more on talent.
     
  16. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Ca
    #16
    unfortunately............

    Those same talented people then have to hire Grey People to do the actual business part of the business. Geeks make ****ty CEO's and worse business moguls. The best situation is for a Non-Geek frontman who understands Geekisms to front for the Geeks he founded with from the CEO slot. IE: If you can find a Data Junkie with Charisma, you're set.
     
  17. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Ca
    #17
    " Always attack a flying eyeball from behind"

    I always preferred a Light-based attack when shooting down Beholders. They don't react well to a 10D6 Magic-powered LASER.
     
  18. buffsldr macrumors 6502a

    buffsldr

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    #18
    IS Departments

    As long as apple has a more stable network, IS departments will always favor M$... it provides them with job security.
     
  19. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Location:
    secret city
    #19
    Re: " Always attack a flying eyeball from behind"


    Well hell...if you got one of those in your arsenal then you can attack from anywhere!!! and still make out okay.


    :)
     

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