Does Boot Camp mark the first steps of a new Apple war using Gaming as the start?

Discussion in 'Games' started by Haoshiro, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #1
    Preface: This thread and the posts within should be considered pure speculation and hypothesis, describing possibilities that may never occur; not prophecy!

    After posting about how we think of a PC vs a Mac it got me to thinking...

    With the release of Boot Camp beta and all that it entails, windows gaming on our macs at the forefront, do you think we are seeing the beginning of a new Apple War or Apple's White Flag?

    To explain, let me present two opposing scenarios:

    Scenario #1: Apple intends to fight the 'PC Market', and Windows specifically, very aggressively. They release the Boot Camp beta as an early scout. They then launch Leopard with integrated Boot Camp as a first strike. The intention being to push anyone on the fence, because of either certain Windows-specific apps or games, off and onto a new Mac purchase.

    They collect the data, see how it went and prepare the next attack. This could range from integrated virtualisation to signing deals with pc manufacturers to release OS X machines or dual-booting machines. The next logical step, if not already done in Leopard is the virtualization. It would offer customers easy access to those needed windows-specific apps with no need of a reboot. Apps like AutoCAD, Solitare, etc.

    Along with this would be new PowerMacs backed by several hardware manufacturers supplying top-end graphics cards and other cards for exapansion.

    The point of this scenario is that Apple would be waging war with Microsoft, attacking directly with intention of striking the mortal blow to Windows or at least get on equal footing with them.

    Scenario #2: The "White Flag", Apple is easing the transition to Microsoft Windows. By switching to Intel in a few years time most of their customer base will not only be running Intel Macs with Leopard they will have machines that work with Windows flawlessly. This will allow Apple to essentially drop OS X and allow Mac owners and easy transition.

    Why would the do this? Personally I don't think they would ever do this but I can think of some reasons:

    a) Apple is joining Microsoft to make a joint OS with the strengths and compatibility of both systems.
    b) They are going to focus on hardware and move their software to being cross-platform even moreso then they currently do with iTunes/QuickTime.

    One or both of these would work but they work best together. Apple would continue to create great hardware but likely with less focus on computers and more with addon devices and devices like the iPod, etc.

    In Closing... Obviously neither of these may happen or if they did it could take on a very different shape. But what does everyone here think? Could there be some truth to this... is either scenario possible, plausible, or even likely?

    If so, which scenario would you be most likely to believe? Myself, I'd go with something like Scenario #1 but honestly neither would "surprise" me.
     
  2. Symtex macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I think it's an inevitable transition that would lead Apple to financial security. Even though I love Mac OS X, Microsoft has already a very strong hold on the pc market and I don't think any company is strong enough to compete in the OS market. I think Steve Jobs understand that sacrifice Apple needs to make in order to stay at flow in the pc market. Switching to Intel was only the first step.
     
  3. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

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    #3
    I prefer Scenario #3: Apple is providing a relatively cheap and easy way to entice Windows users who can still use the Apple hardware for their current Windows apps, and for people who are intrigued by Macs but know they need a PC too. Jobs is confident that people who can compare OS X and XP on the same computer will choose OS X for most things. It's basically a switcher campaign in disguise.
     
  4. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #4
    thats exactly what it is.

    You can go up and you can go down but regardless, Macs suck for games. Its the bottom line. Dosent matter that we can use boot camp and so forth. You just cannot build a gaming Mac while you can build a gaming PC. Apple isnt trying to go after gamers. Their not saying, we can be like Alien Ware..kinda.

    This is just for the people who really like some of the things windows offers, including games but arent too hardcore.
     
  5. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #5
    So what if you can't build a gaming Mac? You can still buy one that performs EXTREMELY well on modern games. ESPECIALLY the laptops; you can't build a gaming PC laptop either, and the Mac outperforms all the Windows laptops on the market.
     
  6. LagunaSol macrumors 601

    LagunaSol

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    #6
    No way is this some sort of effort to combine forces with Microsoft on a shared OS. That's just nutty. Nor are they going to drop OS X and standardize on Windows (sorry, Dvorak).

    This is just a carrot to dangle in front of the hungry Windows masses. Get them to try our side out, and let the great hardware/software do the rest.

    I'm hoping Apple goes gunning for the gamer market. Throw a killer 3D card in an iMac and you have the ultimate LAN party box. Forget carting towers and separate displays around.

    I think the Mac game market may sputter for a bit, but ultimately will take off as marketshare grows.
     
  7. Haoshiro thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #7
    So it sounds like the consensus so far is that no Apple is not going to try to wage a war with Microsoft, nor will they team up with them.

    Sure, this does work as a "switch" campaign, I'm just asking if anyone thinks it could be more then that.

    Personally I think Windows is weaker then ever right now. MS has been spending a lot of time and money on Xbox, Vista continues to get delayed, and public perception of Windows really isn't that great anyway.

    Why wouldn't Apple march ahead with a more aggressive campaign? Why wouldn't they strike while the beast is sleeping?

    Switching to Intel could have been the first steps of Apple opening their superior OS to the general computing public. If not that, something a but more subversive. Why not? Because Apple is content with being the underdog and enjoy the position they are in now?

    Like I said, it's all speculation... but it doesn't seem completely unplausible... heck, Boot Camp exists... and that shocked a lot of people already. Nobody thinks we'll get another shocker?
     
  8. LagunaSol macrumors 601

    LagunaSol

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    #8
    Actually, I think they is they will wage war against MS, but right now it's just just in the "covert actions" stage. I don't think there's any question that this Intel switch will eventually lead to a "shock and awe" blitzkrieg at some point.

    Vista delays (and Microsoft's insistence on attacking every possible market in technology, mastering none of them), consumer weariness of Windows, exploding security problems, the growing push for open standards in office computing, the smashing success of the iPod and Apple's foray into digital entertainment delivery, continued refinement of OS X, the switch to Intel...all signs point to a chance for a mortal strike at the belly of the Beast.

    Steve Jobs wants to reclaim what was stolen from him by Gates and the Weasel Pack many years ago. He wants Apple in its rightful place at the head of the personal computing world. It's the Return of the King. As Gandalf said, "I come to you at the turn of the tide." The tide is turning.
     
  9. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #9
    wait are you serious? Extremely well is an opinion is it not? To those who build a gaming PC, they wanna run every game on top setting. I built my gaming PC to play Doom 3 On Ultra High. Not High or Normal.

    back to my are you serious. Seriously? You cant build gaming laptops? hhmm. Im gonna have to go have a word with Alienware. Lying bastards told me I could.
     
  10. Haoshiro thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #10
    I believe he means you can't! :D And by that he meant the general public.
     
  11. kingcrowing macrumors 6502a

    kingcrowing

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    #11
    what he meant was you cant build a gaming laptop from scratch, I guess Asus has tried it, without too much success. but Alienware is not too different from anywhere else, the top end alienware laptop is not leaps and bounds above the Dell XPS (espically not for long as Dell owns them now) but the high end alienwares are now soooo huge and hideous (who the hell needs DUAL optical drives stacked ontop of eachother on a laptop???) and the MBP is great looking and from what I've heard it runs games such as Oblivion very well on high settings
     
  12. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #12
    You can't. You can pay Alienware to use certain parts they give you options for, but they charge a higher premium than Apple does!
     
  13. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #13
    well you take what you can get right? Its like Cellphones, they started weak and huge and look at them now. Laptops in the same progression. if you want alot of power, it cant be crammed in yet.

    Please, no offence, Im an Apple user and I can admit Alienware would rape a MBP. Just take the Mac Elite out of you for a sec and go compare stats for yourself.
     
  14. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #14
    Don't delude yourself. Have you seen the benchmarks? The MacBook Pro is the fastest Windows laptop on the market and will crush the Alienware (which is single core).

    However, the highest end Alienware laptops (approaching $3000) can be tricked out with a Geforce 7800 GTX which beats the MBP's graphics card. But the MBP still wins processorwise and in all non-gaming applications, and keeps up quite well in gaming.
     
  15. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #15
    so thats not dual core plus 64, not 32 plus HyperTransport witch rapes the Hyper Threading idea.
     
  16. LagunaSol macrumors 601

    LagunaSol

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    #16
    Good grief, let's not start into the gaming PC wars here. The current Mac lineup is definitely not suited to hardcore gamers in the performance department (not to mention the cosmetics department with hardcore gamers' obsession with neon, cheesy cases with clear panels, spider-shaped grille fans, etc.).

    To argue that an iMac or a MacBook Pro is a serious gaming machine is just weak.

    BUT

    Either machine should be very attractive to casual gamers who currently reside in the Windows world. And I imagine future Mac offerings will be even more appealing to gamers. The diehards will always want to build their own boxes, so they're not Apple's target market anyway.

    Toss a Radeon x1800 in an iMac, and you still have a pretty sweet LAN party setup. Hopefully someday... I think the current iMac and MacBook Pro show that Apple is going to start taking video performance more seriously, and that's a good thing for everyone.

    On a sidenote, I'd be embarrassed to carry an Alienware laptop around anyway. ;)
     
  17. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #17

    thank you. again, the Mac Elites who have drifted away from the real world like to strike. This isnt a Bash against Macs but the truth is, their not gaming machines. I dont care if its a Macbook Pro or a Quad Core G5. their just not designed for it.

    jesus, people on this forum sometimes need to stop pretending Steve Job is paying them to be a Mac Elite
     
  18. Lollypop macrumors 6502a

    Lollypop

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    #18
    It amazes me that so many people see boot camp as a covert attempt to covert windows users to the mac... if so many people see it.. how is it covert? :D

    As for gaming, its more than just a graphics card, its fast optimized drivers and game optimization and good fast code in the OS... I think the Mac hs very little of the last 3.
     
  19. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #19
    Does Boot Camp mark the first steps of a new Apple war using Gaming as the start?

    To answer your thread question. NO!

    Apple do not go into battle using another companys Operating System. That's just a stupid premise full stop.

    BootCamp should be thought of more as a reaction to the onmac. project.
    If the onmac had not been successful, we would still be waiting for leopard and for virtualization. And we would still have had to work through Mac OSX rather than dual boot.

    Bootcamp was a reaction to prevent people from fecking up their hardware by forcing a square peg into a round hole. Apple dont want their repair centers full up of macs with buggered XOM/EFI files....

    If for 1 tiny mili second 'Gaming' was important to Apple, do you think they would be using the GMA950 in the mini mac? and dropping the dig at pc's that do from their marketing (which came with a nice pic of Halo) ?

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  20. Haoshiro thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #20
    According to Tuncer Deniz, a previous manager at Bungie, Steve Jobs was actually offered Bungie and took too long deciding. He called them up and said he would buy them but it was too late.

    I'm only suggesting that their could be more to it then meets the eye. Which of course would be to avoid people mucking with the EFI. But virtualization?

    Do you not think Apple is going to start a new war with Microsoft? If so, do you not think Boot Camp will help push more people to Macs? Would this not help them stage a battle?
     
  21. LagunaSol macrumors 601

    LagunaSol

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    #21
    Yeah, because none of the PC makers have low-end machines with integrated graphics either. :rolleyes:
     
  22. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #22
    Your missing the point.

    Apple in previous apple marketing slagged of low-end machines with integrated graphics in comparison the the mac mini... :rolleyes:

    It's amazing how they backtracked and dropped the 'gaming' reference completely from their mac mini marketing.

    But that's backwards, how can you start a war with Microsoft if what your pushing is the benefit/ability of running their Operating System? That's completely upside down.

    If they wanted to really battle Microsoft they would start advertising the benefits of their own operating system.

    Look at the last lot of apple adverts. You would think they were for intel rather apple and they told the audience NOTHING about what Apple OSX is or anything.... I know some people think they were intel adverts rather than apple, but that's not the case. These adverts were made for & buy apple.
     
  23. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #23
    I going to say boot camp is more of a sign that apple is giving up on the gaming world. They are saying here run windows if you want to play games.

    If apple really wants to get into gaming first they need do more work with the graphic enginee in the OS. Like M$ did with direct X. M$ releasied a very long time ago games where going to become big on the PC back when they started developing directX took them a little while to get it right but once they did it become very powerful.

    2nd thing apple will have to do is stop gimping there computers with poor graphic cards and limiting them. until apple does those 2 things no gaming company is going to considered apple have any real intersted in gaming. 2nd one is very imporanted for that part.
     
  24. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #24
    Exactly.


    To use an analogy.

    This is not a Rambo film where 1 man can go up against an army of soldiers...

    Apple being rambo (counting for 4-5% of pc market) and Microsoft as the soldiers (accounting for 91% of market share)......

    Your not going to increase your market share by saying to people, look you can now run Windows in our machines which cost more than the Dell that also runs Windows with the same specs... That's retarded..

    The thing that made Apple, apple is the operating system.
     
  25. Haoshiro thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #25
    I think you're missing my point (and also over looking Scenario #2 I listed).

    They aren't pushing the abilities or benefits of Windows. Windows isn't so much "popular" as it is wide spread. Apple knows that for what ever reason people think they need Windows and until they really use OS X they won't see how little they actually don't need it.

    People need to feel they can transition easily. Boot Camp eases the apprehension of potential new mac users by saying 'hey, we're not making you drop everything you're familiar with right now, you can test the waters and not be afraid to do so.'

    I have known MANY PC users that loved the idea of switching to Mac, but they didn't want a second computer. These people just needed to know Windows would work and be there if they need it. And that's the thing, people don't. So yes Apple is offering them Windows but the intention, I think, is to ween them, not simply pacify them.
     

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