Done it! - Nehalem W5590 Octad 3,33 GHz

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by gugucom, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #1
    I closed a deal with a supplier of a pair of W5590 engineering samples which are tweaked for overclocking beyond 3,33 GHz. The price is roughly half of the official price for W5590s. It is my intention to purchase a 2,26 GHz Nehalem Mac Pro and upgrade.

    I will be sharing the experience of this project in this thread. For now I have been told that there is one more pair of CPUs available. The seller isn't prepared to disclose his name but I can pass your email address to him if you PM it to me.
     
  2. macrumors Core

    alphaod

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    上海 (Shanghai)
    #2
    Half the price of one 5590? That would make it $800 each? Very tempting.

    Are these samples lidded or not?
     
  3. macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    #3
    ES CPUs often have undocumented Errata... I would stay away even at that price. There are plenty of threads about stability and ES CPUs on more tweaker-oriented sites such as XtremeSystems.org, etc.

    For an Overclocker's PC I wouldn't think twice but in a workstation stability is paramount. Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. macrumors 68040

    Pressure

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Location:
    Denmark
    #4
    I fully agree with this.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #5
    No such feature has been named which leads me to believe they are standard IHS. But that isn't a disadvantage.

    The seller claims that the chips have been thoroughly tested and work like the series production version. I'm in Europe and have to pay in €*what Americans pay in $$ so ES is an advantage particularly as the customs cannot find them in a price list. :cool: On top I will have a PayPal claim if I receive bad merchandise. So a little risk can be justified in my view. But hey I'm only speaking for myself. YMMV
     
  6. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    #6
    I agree with you, and for me it also would not be worth it at any price, unless I was not using my MP for work... But I do sympathize with gugucom, he's not from the states and paying our retail... Tough choice. Good luck gugucom, I'll be following this thread closely and supporting your efforts. :)
     
  7. macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #7
    All the photos of ES Nehalems I saw did have an IHS on them.

    Some might consider the need for a thermally conductive filler material a disadvantage. I don't, and you don't seem panicked over it either. ;) Necessary for the project, and well worth doing IMO. :D

    Rather slick. :D Good luck on it. Hopefully, the ES variants will behave nicely. ;)

    I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)
     
  8. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    #8
    I'll be curious to know the outcome of this as I was about to buy a couple of these processors myself (but retail, not ES). Problem is, I had been reading that they do not have the turbo-boost feature in them, according to people who had talked to Intel about it. So I contact Intel myself and received the following reply:

    I still don't know for sure about hyperthreading either. This kind of makes sense seeing as how the cost per 1000 is the same for both the 5580 and 5590. ie: The 5590 might sacrifice something.

    I've started thinking that the w5580's might be the way to go, since while rendering videos they may be able to work a little faster - temperature permitting - using the turbo boost.
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #9
    Turbo boost is nothing but using the TDP of a CPU to take a single core to the range ceiling of 3,33GHz. Obviously a 2,26 GHz CPU profits more from it than a 2,66 GHz. And at the top of the range a 3,33 GHz unit has no head room for turbo boost. But then it doesn't need it because all four cores will run full speed.

    A good read is:

    http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3597&p=1

    I will insert some quotes and references from other threads in order to have them handy here.



    My current work centers around finding a 2,26 GHz Octad Nehalem at a decent price. New rigs cost 3000€ in Germany and I will try to get a refurbished or used at 2500€ max. At present Apple store show no stock but I will regularly check and sift through ebay.
     
  10. macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #10
    I'd go for a refurb as well, if it were me. ;) Less expensive, and it still carries a full manufacturer warranty on the system. :)
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #11
    Not that the warranty will matter after the new CPUs are popped in. Though I suppose if you kept the old 2.26's in storage and popped them back in to take it in for service you'd be golden. :)

    I'd take you up on this deal but I just found myself the proud owner of 3 w5580's :D. Now I need to unload one of those suckers and find myself a refurb 09 2.26
     
  12. macrumors Core

    alphaod

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    上海 (Shanghai)
    #12
    This definitely tempting me, but I don't think I need them considering the 2.66 is currently fine with me. If I had the 2.26 model I would have definitely gone for it.
     
  13. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Location:
    Montreal
    #13
    Are you sure about that? The W3580s have turbo boost. If turbo boost does not take a single core past 3.33Ghz why would they have it on the 3.33Ghz processor?
     
  14. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #14
    W5580 runs 3,2 GHz. W5590 runs 3,33 GHz. Actually I don't know the exact turbo boost steps of each 55xx CPU but you could read that in Anand's write up. http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3597&p=1
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Location:
    Montreal
    #15
    But I was talking about the W3580, which does run at 3.3Ghz and does have turbo... vs the W5590 which also runs at 3.33Ghz but does not have turbo.
     
  16. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    #16
    I'm also still wondering about the W5590's ability to hyperthread. Although I've seen some sites claim it has it, Intel's website doesn't say, and oddly all the tests I've found just say hyper-threading disabled. In addition, the Geekbench results for people who have put the W5590 in Mac Pro's all show 8-core instead of the usual 16, which makes me question hyperthreading capability (never mind that they had abysmal results considering their cpu's).

    For those interested and don't know, the turbo boost steps for the higher end chips are:

    W5590 (3.33GHz):
    n/a
    W3580 (3.33GHz single processor version):
    133 MHz for 4, 3 and 2 cores, and 266 MHz for 1 core.
    W5580 (3.2GHxz):
    133 MHz for 4, 3 and 2 cores, and 266 MHz for 1 core
    X5570 (2.93GHz):
    266 MHz for 4 and 3 cores, and 400 MHz for 1 or 2 cores.
     
  17. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #17
    Hyper threading is a product feature of the 55xx chip architecture. How can it be not applicable to the W5590. It would be absurd.

    Edit: I looked up the Intel spec sheet and they simply do not make an entry for HT. It looks strange I agree, but it could be a clerical mistake. When you do a direct spec comparison between the W5580 and W5590 you see that many other items are left out for the W5590 as well. Among them are 64-bit architecture. I think that HT is most probably available on this CPU.

    I found that they exclude HT on some lower 55xx products. So my above comment was wrong. Sorry for being over confident.
     
  18. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #18
    The 3580 is a single socket CPU where the 5590 is dual socket. It could be possible that they disabled turbo to limit the power ceiling in line with some chipset conventions. Like limiting power to total 260 W TDP. It would not be applicable to the W3580 because it is well inside that spec.
     
  19. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    #19
    I completely agree with you. This comes across as being their top of the line chip and so one would assume hyperthreading should be there. However I just received a response back from Intel from my inquiry to clarify hyperthreading support:

    That's from Intel's tech department. The "previous link" they refer to is from an earlier email about TB which I posted earlier in the thread. http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=41643&code=Intel%C2%AE+Xeon%C2%AE+Processor+W5590+%288M+Cache%2c+3.33+GHz%2c+6.40+GT%2fs+Intel%C2%AE+QPI%29. Again, omitting some features might explain why the pricing is the same as the model below it.

    I have suspicions however that some preproduction models had all features unlocked. I'll be interested to see if the chips you scored are fully unlocked! :)
     
  20. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    #20
    The specs on Intel's site are often wrong. Take a look at this site. No TB, but it does support HT.

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon W5590 - AT80602000753AA (BX80602W5590).html
     
  21. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #21
    CPUs arrived

    Just to keep you up to date. My W5590 CPUs arrived by FedEx today and I got away with moderate import bleeding.

    The Chips are Q1QW ES and the seller told me they are D0 stepping which is identical with the final HW code.

    The MacPro4,1 is still in Apple Nirvana. They wrote me an email that my credit card got blocked today. The bank said its routine to do so in cases of high values being cashed in from abroad (Apple apparently collect all payments in the UK). So it looks like no joy for the next 2-3 days.

    I will go and get the thermal pads.
     
  22. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #22
    My refurbushed Mac Pro is purchased from Apple Germany. It is payed to Apple UK. It is shipped by Apple Holland (NL). Here is the UPS record of my Mac's transport. Last evening 22:15 it arrived in Germany.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    HERNE-BOERNIG, DE 22.09.2009 22:15 ANKUNFTSSCAN
    EINDHOVEN, BEST, NL 22.09.2009 20:15 ABFAHRTSSCAN
    22.09.2009 17:42 HERKUNFTSSCAN NL
    22.09.2009 12:07 RECHNUNGSINFORMATIONEN

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    :):D:):D:)

    BTW, does anybody have a service manual for the Nehalems? Please PM me!
     
  23. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    #23
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:cool:;)

    I would appreciate this also, please. :)
     
  24. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    #24
    good luck! this sounds like a great project. id join you in it myself if i had the cash to burn right now + knowledge about replacing CPUs etc.
     
  25. thread starter macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #25
    Some bad news for now.

    The 2,26 Nehalem Mac Pro arrived and I managed to get thermal pads although it was an odyssee. The Octoberfest is on full song and getting into the red light district (where all the electronics shops are) is a PITA. Traffic is a killer. None of the shops had the material and after 2h of chaos I visited a trusted Apple AASP who came up with some blue stuff of 1 mm thickness after searching all his junk drawers and card board boxes.

    I carefully disassembled the CPU and RAM daughter board and took off the two heat sinks. Unscrewing works much like working on an engine cylinder block. You best approach it with the diagonal technique. I started with sink A and released all four 3 mm hex screws. I then lifted the heat sink with the cpu attached out of the socket. It is essential not to drop it back in when you have started to pull it from the socket because that is probably how Anand managed to screw his socket. Remember the sockets have no clamps!!! :eek: scary think to design!:rolleyes:

    CPU B looked slightly out of angle when I took it of the heat sink. The removal must have been not quite ideal. Apple was perfect with thermal grease application I must say. A very nice pattern.

    I fitted the W5590s and increased the thickness of the thermal padding at the rim of the heat sink where the little voltage regulators are contacted by the padding. I cleaned the heat sinks to mirror finish and oh so carefully mounted them back on the sockets using again diagonal tightening technique.

    After carefully re assembling the CPU/RAM board I switched power back on and got a white light but no gong sound came to tell me the CPUs had posted and were booting OS X.

    I have taken the CPU A out again and re seated it but it looked perfect as the socket looked perfectly ok.

    I tested again without joy and I will take out the CPU B to check for damage. If this CPU is also ok I may put the X5520s back in. For now I'm badly frustrated because this project got me very excited.

    For the moment I see only two possible options. I got bad CPU from my seller or Apple have enabled the Nehalems only up to W5580 as Tutor used those with success.

    If someone has a good idea what could have went wrong please let me know!!!

    I will come back and make further reports as the action continues.
     

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