Don't support terrorist organizations, steal music!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stoid, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. stoid macrumors 601

    stoid

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    #1
    With all the talk of terrorism in the news, I realized that in a big way a very real group of terrorist is the RIAA. As such I intend to build a website that points out the terrorist tactics that the RIAA is currently employing to achieve it's political end. Normally, I would simply advocate that people boycott the RIAAs product, but it seems that the proper response to terrorism under the current USA government is treat terrorists as less than people and take their possessions by force if need be.

    I would like a little help in compiling news stories, as well as any commentary that intelligently draws this connection. I'm not looking to put up a slur campaign based on wildly drawn and inaccurate conclusions, but a solid factual account that cannot be denied by a reasonable person.

    If I am completely off the deep end on this one, I will accept logical arguments to the contrary. As many college students in the past have staged protests against social and political problem, I feel that today's students are too complacent and need to speak out for their beliefs. The only complaints college students seem to have is excuses for why they should get hand outs and freebies! There NEEDS to be an example of VOICE!

    <\soap box (for now)>
     
  2. timswim78 macrumors 6502a

    timswim78

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    #2
    Do you really feel that "terrorism" is the best way to describe the business practices with which you take issue?
     
  3. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #3
    Yer stoned right now aren't you.


    Lethal
     
  4. stoid thread starter macrumors 601

    stoid

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    #4
    Goodness no, there are many 'foolish' things that I may try, but drugs are not on that list. Besides, I'm allergic to smoke.

    And while the RIAA is not using violence or other physical means to their end, I do feel that terrorism is he correct term. They are going after a susceptible subset of the 'enemy' (music swappers) in order to frighten the masses into order.
     
  5. penguinman macrumors member

    penguinman

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    #5
    capitalism is terrorism, when will we realize this?

    it is to my knowledge that the majority of people don't think that the attack of the WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION was profoundly symbolic to our current state of affairs..

    stars fall and disintigrate
     
  6. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #6
    Oh. My.

    I can't wait until you get started on enforcement of parking meter violations, too. Can't have those jackbooted officers selectively persecuting those who break the bylaws in order to frighten the mass of drivers into putting their money into the meter, now.
     
  7. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #7
    or when judges put murders into jail to frighten the mass of people to not kill others.

    What else is there
     
  8. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #8
    I'm afraid so. Something about sitting in traffic on the Verrazano bridge, looking over to my left to see the WTC gone, replaced with billowing clouds of smoke seen for miles, suddenly makes the terrorists at the RIAA seem completely irrelevant.
     
  9. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #9
    If capitalism is terrorism, then the US government should immediately detain and send you to Guantanamo Bay for aiding and abetting terrorists. I mean, you've got quite the fancy computer equipment in your sig. How much did that cost you? And that's some nice clothing you've got too, sitting in your ritzy studio on your website. Did you make those clothes yourself?

    Really now, spare us your sweeping twaddle on the evils of capitalism.
     
  10. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #10
    looks like a definition of 'terrorism' is in order.

    from wikipedia:
    there are some key points there which, imo, disallow the term for the RIAA tactics. first, their aim is business-related, not political. also, they're using legal means, not violence. finally, the RIAA is targetting individuals it feels are guilty, and not targetting just anyone "in the area". that users are civilians, in the military sense, is irrelevant.
     
  11. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #11
    I think you're on the right track... but terrorists? Unless they're headed by George Bush or Osama Bin Ladin, or another terrorist mastermind, I wouldn't consider them terrorists.

    I agree their tactics are unruly... And voicing your opinion online on a site may get some work done, and spread information. Advocating piracy (whether I do it or not is not the issue, I think it's fine) may draw unwanted attention to yourself, though.
     
  12. Qoxiivi macrumors regular

    Qoxiivi

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    #12
    While I'm not sure that capitalism or participating in a capitalist system necessarily equates to terrorism, most ‘westerners’ (myself included) live lifestyles that only exist because:

    a. we make up the minority of the world’s population

    and

    b. our disproportionate consumption of the world’s resources is at the expense of the majority of its citizens – those unfortunate enough to have been born in a country unable to properly defend itself, its population and its resources against the western-dominated capitalist system.

    Being a ‘rich westerner’ is indeed very comfortable, but don’t think for a second that it’s not at everyone else’s expense – because it is. The hard part is breaking out of the apathy that keeps us all at home saving up for a flatter television rather than planning a better, and sustainable, future for the planet and all those who live on it.

    Governments and corporations don’t help – they’re just there to coerce and deceive us; so maintaining our position in the equation as servile placid consumers. It’s a hard lifestyle to break though – I personally am finding it very difficult and am taking it one step at a time.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Why steal it when simply not buying music will put the squeeze on them?

    You wouldn't steal gasoline to oppose the Saudis, would you?
     
  14. iMeowbot macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #14
    It's usually best, when picking a message for a PR campaign, to make sure that it doesn't backfire.

    A straight boycott, assuming that enough people participate, could send the message that the end product isn't worth the system that comes along with it.

    Taking without paying kind of sends the opposite message. It says that there is still demand for, and therefore value in, the stuff -- enough value, in fact, to make it worth stealing. That reinforces the arguments in favor of the subpoenas and raids.
     
  15. stoid thread starter macrumors 601

    stoid

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    #15
    Many good points have been raised, especially in logical counterpoint to my original argument.

    As usual, I realize that I have been overly critical and over zealous in my rants. I have attempted to bleach an issue that will hopefully only require water and a good scrubbing.

    I do however feel that there must be a better solution to the problem then to sue hapless parents and grandparents whose children have been irresponsible with the internet. Of course attempting to find it is the hard part and has been discussed to death not only in this forum but in all media.

    Perhaps we should take a lesson from the classroom? Notice that educators that spend their time punishing bad behavior are despised, while educators that take extra care to reward students that behave properly are far more effective in most cases. Is there some way in wish the RIAA could reward honest customers? It seems that this is not their interest, as they are pushing to raise prices of legal downloads without regard to the new customers they have gained.
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    Lower prices.

    Why is everyone laughing?
     
  17. iMeowbot macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #17
    Why would these companies want to lower prices when they're selling billions of units at the current points?

    If consumers want lower prices, the way to do that is stop consuming and demonstrate that there is no demand at the higher ones. A major falloff in unit sales, rather than the shrinkage from file sharing etc., would get the point across. This would be a low-pain thing to accomplish, since few if any people really need recorded music and films.

    What would it take to drum up widespread, genuine interest in getting that point across?
     
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #18
    People should be reward for doing the right thing (even though they should be doing the right thing anyway) but not punished for doing the wrong thing? So, in effect, we should all be extorting each other?

    So I should buy my GF candy/flowers on a weekly (daily?) basis as a "thank you" for not cheating on me? Or I should walk into my boss's office and say, "Hey. I showed up today and did my job. Now give me a bonus or I'll just start surfing the internet all day."

    I agree w/iMeowbot's posts, BTW. Boycotting is an effective way to send a message. P2P is not.


    Lethal
     
  19. stoid thread starter macrumors 601

    stoid

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    #19
    Thank you for taking my logical argument and making completely ridiculous statements carrying a simple idea to an incredible and unrealistic extreme in an attempt to make my suggestion look foolish. Also, I would like to thank you for suggesting that because I am interested in expressing myself that I am clearly a pothead. Your input has been both useful and constructive in this discussion.

    However, you can simply extend the analogy. A teacher that overly awards behavior to the ridiculous extreme you suggested are equally as unsuccessful as those that only punish. The idea is to find a middle ground, a gray area, certainly there is a time and a place for punishment, but sometimes it's easier to catch flies with honey than a fly swatter.
     
  20. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #20
    I merely asked if you were stoned because your original post reminded me of a chemically impaired rambling (no offense). The RIAA are terrorists? Seriously? Yeah, I think they got ridiculously heavy handed and went after the problem like a bull in a china shop, but on the other hand I also disagree w/people freely giving away in mass what's not theirs to give away. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Later on you said you think people should be rewarded for merely not breaking the rules/law. Which I think is silly so I provided different contexts of your position in an attempt to illustrate my point. How about this, let's substitute shoplifting for P2P.
    Me: "Hey, I just need this CD."
    Cashier at local record store: "Sure no problem. By the way, thank you so much for paying for this CD as opposed to shoplifting it. Just for that here is coupon for 20% off your next purchase."
    Me: "Um... okay... thanks..."

    Do I really deserve a reward for just NOT stealing merchandise? Have we sunk so low as a society that someone should be rewarded for simply deciding to not screw over someone else?


    Lethal
     
  21. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    The RIAA's job isn't to make friends, its to reduce piracy. If you pirate music, and you don't like the RIAA, then they're doing their job. If I'm a drug dealer, then I probably don't like the DEA very much. If I'm a cop with a itchy trigger, then I probably don't like the ACLU. If I run red lights, I probably don't like the red light cameras. You get the idea.

    If you copy music illegally, you're breaking copyright law. That's not that big a deal - it's a rare person who can get through a few months without breaking some kind of law. I routinely drive 15 miles over the speed limit, and I'm never the fastest guy on the road. But since you are breaking the law when you copy music illegally, somebody will probably try to catch you and make your life miserable - not only to punish you, but to deter other people. That's life. If you don't like it, move somewhere where its legal or they care less, or they don't care, or just don't do it.

    And if you think the law should change, that's fine. Fight the power. But is the right to download expensive music for free really the most pressing issue we're facing as a country? Hard to argue that.
     
  22. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #22
    But when you get a ticket for speeding it's a hundred or two dollars and a few points on your license.

    When the RIAA decides to make an example of you they attempt to ruin your life. Maybe if they were handing out $100 fines by the hundreds instead of forcing dozens of people to spend thousands in court and then pay $2000+ in "damages", there'd be some balance to the situation.
     
  23. stoid thread starter macrumors 601

    stoid

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    #23

    And there it is! You've isolated the point at which the RIAAs methods differ from meter maids and other law enforcement. It seems that the punishment does not fit the crime. Again to the classroom analogy (since my parents are teachers it's easy for me). If there is a group of a few unruly kids in the room that are disrupting an otherwise good lecture, you single them out and send them to the office. You don't pull out a shotgun, blast one of their heads off and scream "Next mother****er to talk GETS IT!!!!"
     
  24. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    can you link to some real life examples that illustrate this?
     
  25. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #25
    No, no, you do a fine job of that yourself

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
     

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