dSLR advice

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by platypus63, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Zanzibar Land
    #1
    Hey folks,

    This week I will be buying my first SLR, it's between a Canon Digital Rebel and a Nikon D50. I'm leaning more towards the Nikon, because I like it's body better, and there is some other Nikon gear laying over my house from other family members. Do you guys know if the Nikon will be upgraded anytime soon? And most importantly, do you guys suggest I get extended warranty from the store I buy it from? I was thinking of Newegg, since they have a kit for $630.

    Thanks!
    -platypus
     
  2. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #2
    Buy the Nikon kit but you could also look at Adorama.com, JandR.com, and Amazon.com as well.
     
  3. macrumors 6502

    Orlando Furioso

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    Bezerkeley
    #3
    Hello platypus63, welcome to MacRumors!

    This topic, and variants, have been hit extensively. Search the forums for "nikon" and canon" should get you a good idea of what people's recommendations are.

    Here are some links to get you started:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=177205&highlight=nikon+canon

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=163864&highlight=nikon+canon

    Personally, I don't like how Nikons feel in my hands. Because I did not own any Nikon lenses, it was easier for me to go with Canon (20D, which I LOVE).

    Since you might have access to Nikon lenses it might make sense for you to go that route. As of December 2005 (? maybe November) Nikon updated their dSLR line with the addition of the D200 (an awesome camera and value).
     
  4. macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #4
    I haven't pulled the trigger just yet but I'm 95% sure I'm buying a Canon Rebel this weekend.
     
  5. macrumors 6502

    Orlando Furioso

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    Bezerkeley
  6. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #6
    I wouldn't, unless I was desparate. Do yourself a favour and don't buy the kit but buy the body and another lens, e.g. the 50mm f1.8.
     
  7. macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #7
    yes I've heard the lens isn't the greatest stuff out there, but my roommates got a nice collection of canon lenses so I'll just try some of his in the mean time :p
     
  8. thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Zanzibar Land
    #8
    I've visited those threads oh so many times! Along with spending hours at dpreview.com. I've tried my brothers D70, and my roommates Canon Rebel, and I think im pretty much set for the D50 (and "borrow" for extended periods of time my brothers lenses). My main concern is purchasing extended warranty. Do you guys think its necessary for this stuff? I'm just a bit worried as to how a warranty through an online store would work.

    Oh and by the way, what i really want is the Rebel XT, but its a bit more expensive for me, and I wont have access to extra's with it. Oh pretty pretty XT, someday it shall be mine
     
  9. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #9
    It's a cruel joke but a lot of people want quantity instead of quality.
     
  10. macrumors 6502

    Orlando Furioso

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    Bezerkeley
    #10
    bousozoku, are you talking about the kit lens or canon lenses in general?
     
  11. macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #11
    I think he's talking about the kit lens, or atleast thats what I've derived from having read this review is that the camera itself is fine, but the kit lens is not great.
     
  12. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #12
    The kit lens in particular, though I'm always surprised to see refurbished L-series glass.
     
  13. macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Location Location
    #13
    But like you said, Nikon feels better in your hands. In order to use it, you pretty much need to have it in your hand at some point in time. It's not like with other things, like laptops, where you never have to take it off your desk if you don't want to. You NEED to hold it and switch settings and such.

    I wouldn't buy a 350D/Rebel XT either unless I had to get a Canon. Even then, I'd get the 20D because it was miserable to use my friend's 350D for an hour, although I'm sure it takes great photos. The 20D is simply higher quality, and since the 30D was announced last week, I would probably either go for a D50 or a 20D that has been reduced in price.
     
  14. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #14
    Indeed. It's not even the plastic because I've worked with such an Olympus camera but it had a natural feel to it.

    The 20D or 30D would be the minimal Canon SLR I would choose--and that only if Olympus and Nikon and Pentax went out of business. Canon have very good technology, they just make it difficult to use smoothly.
     
  15. macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #15
    Look at upgrading the lens

    IF you buy the D50 look don't buy the "kit" lens. The better lens is the lens that normally sells with the D70. The 18-70mm is much better. it has:

    1) Non rotating filter ring
    2) "silent wave" focus motor
    3) instant manual focus over ride
    4) A "real: focus ring on the lens
    5) much more robust build quality
    6) It is "faster"

    It costs more too but if you were concidering the 350D the N50 with 18-70 is still within your bufget.

    Look at Canoga Camera they've packaged the D50 and 18-70 as a kit with discount.
    Also B&H has the 18-70 at a good price. The 18-70 is also easy to find used because D70 owners may want to upgrade from thier "kit lens"

    Bottom line is the pay much attention to the lens you buy and not just look at camera bodies. It's the _lens_ and makes the image the body simply records it.
     
  16. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Location:
    Zurich
    #16

    I did not read all the posts here so I might say something which has allready been said.
    Here though is my advice:

    - Get a Nikon. The thing you must look out for when buying a SLR or DSLR is the lens mount on the camera. Nikons have the so called F-Mount which exists since the 1950ies... on a modern camera body like the D200 you can use all the lenses that were made since ca 1977. Of course you will want to start with new lenses but it kinda shows the thought that has gone into the lens mount design (of course the design has been extended to allow for data transfer and such but mechanicaly it's the same as in the old days).

    - True that a DSLR will always be better than a compact but that doesn't mean that you should buy the camera with the cheapest lens. Beginner or not but consider getting the 18-70mm f3.5-4.5. It is the best value for performance and still affordable. Don' get a 3.5-5.6 lens as these are really bad no matter what.

    - The D50 is nice but consider the D70s. It allows you to grow much further into photography without having to buy a new camera body in 6 months. Furthermore the D50 is the only Nikon DSLR which doesn't use Compact Flash. So if you ever upgrade your camera body you will have to buy new memory cards which really is a drag. All others use CF Cards so there is no problem.

    - I really don't want to start the flame wars here but do yourself a favur and don't get a canon. Go to a shop and hold the D50 or D70s and then the EOS 350 or 20D / 30D.
    It's like Microsoft and Apple. One company put's love and thought into their product and the other just marketing dollars.

    - Besides that: the chip inside the DSLRs is normally smaller than the size of film in an analog camera. that means that (on a Nikon DSLR) your 50mm lens becomes a 75mm one because the crop factor is 1.5. 20mm becomes 30mm and so forth.
    Now: In the last 13 cameras that Nikon produced the sensor always has a crop factor of 1.5. Nikon calls this size "DX". go to a site like dpreview.com go get more info on that.
    Canon on the other hand produces cameras that have sensors with different crop factors like 1.3, 1.6 and 1:1...
    That is going to be a problem if you one day invest in some of the more expensive lenses and develop a strategy and then you buy a new body and all the factors of your lenses have changes. Suddenly all your lenses might slip more towards telephoto range or the other way towards wide angle...

    That's all that I can say...
    Again: I don't want to start a flame war here but I just feel that you get a better value with Nikon products. Them using a different card format on the D50 is a shame though.

    Hope the info helps
     
  17. thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Zanzibar Land
    #17
    Thanks for the advice nubero, ChrisA and all of you. I've decided to go to an actual store, and not an online one, and get a D50 body and if i can afford to, the D70's kit 18-70 lens. Instead of spending the money on a higher model, I will spend what I have for the d50 body, better lens, and the couple of necessary accessories that will end up costing considerable amount as well (warranty, case & memory in particular).

    Hopefully by next week I can post first of my pictures :)

    Thanks
     
  18. macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #18
    -platypus63

    In the Nikon lense discussion - I'd go for the 28-200 1:3.5-5.6 G lens. Most versatile - and tiny for the range.
     
  19. -hh
    macrumors 68020

    -hh

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    NJ Highlands, Earth
    #19
    I also don't want to start the classical Nikon-Canon (NC) debate, but do want to explore it from a different angle.

    Ignoring *all* the technical nits in the NC hardware, and merely looking at industry trends, what is the prognostication for Nikon's willingness to "stick with it"?

    I already own one discontinued Nikon ... they've abandoned their entire Underwater division ... so my gut is that their announcement the discontinuation of much of their 35mm line could possibly also mean a major scaling-back of "35mm" lens technology investments for the future.

    At the same time, the reality could also be that Canon is (or aleady has!) doing the same thing, but simply hasn't made a public announcement to that effect...

    The only real certainty is that the industry is undergoing a lot of change due to the rapid adoption of digital P&S's superceding conventional 35mm film. With such a basic change, there must be marketplace casualties...and as always, the hard part is figuring out who's going to be the survivors.

    Do we think that there's enough information today to gage who's really going to prosper out of all of this?

    I do realize that conventional wisdom is that its "safe" to go with Nikon and/or Canon because they'll "probably" be one of the survivors, but there's a difference between surviving and actually prospering. As much as I'd like to not say it, it is quite possible that the golden age of 35mm lens development has drawn to a close.


    -hh
     
  20. macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #20
    --hh

    According to everything I've seen, just the 35mm camera bodies are drawing to a close. Lense development is actually accelerating - you see all those tiny VR lenses Nikon just released? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  21. macrumors demi-goddess

    Clix Pix

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    8 miles from the Apple Store at Tysons (VA)
    #21
    With the recent mergers and disappearances of well-known and beloved camera manufacturers, it's not a bad thing to be wary and careful when choosing a camera and lenses from a given manufacturer. Will this company still be around in ten years? Still selling the lenses you will need or able to repair/replace the lenses you're using? I think for this reason I would avoid purchasing digital SLRs from certain manufacturers because of the possibility that they or their cameras and lenses won't be around in a few more years due to the changes in the photographic industry.

    I think that the 35mm lens will still be used and useful, especially if Nikon follows Canon's lead and eventually develops a full-frame DSLR. In the meantime, yes, even as they've discontinued the majority of their 35mm cameras, they're coming out with more and more VR lenses meant specifically for their line of digital SLRs..... lenses which could not successfully be used on a regular film camera body. The new lenses for the most part are lighter weight, something which is welcome, and of course the VR can help significantly in a heavier lens.

    While they're bringing out new models of their digital P&S cameras on a frequent basis, I think that for Nikon and Canon, especially, they see their big money still coming from the sale of DSLRs and the lenses to go with those DSLRs.... hence the arrival and promotion of cameras such as the Digital Rebel and the D70, which subsequently have drawn many more consumers away from the P&S into the DSLR market. With the advent of Nikon's D50 and Canon's newer verson of its Digital Rebel this trend is definitely continuing. And with all of those DSLRs they will want to push lenses: lots and lots of lenses. In many cases people will use existing lenses or buy 35mm lenses to use on their new DSLR, but in other cases the new D50 user would be just as happy to buy the camera body and one or two nice lenses and let it go at that. The new 18-200mm VR is geared towards that consumer as well as towards the photographer who has many lenses but who wants a nice walkaround lens in the kit bag too. Many new DSLR users are not going to be ready or willing to take on the challenge of a six or seven-pound 300mm or 400mm prime lens or a massive zoom which needs to be tripod-mounted for use, hence the newer, smaller, lighter weight lenses with VR....

    Me, I'm waiting for a 100-500mm VR that weighs only one pound! LOL!

    Just had a thought: in addition to cameras and lenses, there has been a tremendous impact on the part of the industry which sells darkroom equipment. We've already seen the disappearance of some long-popular and loved photographic papers.... I'm sure that sales of darkroom equipment and supplies (enlargers, chemicals, dryers, trays, etc.) have fizzled significantly, although of course we can hope that these items won't go away totally.
     
  22. macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #22
    -Clix Pix

    Holy crap! Umm yeah. Me too. the scary thing is with that range - it just might be possible we'll see something like that.

    ... 'course it'll be a $3,000 lens...

    ... and the availability will suck for a long time...
     
  23. macrumors demi-goddess

    Clix Pix

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    8 miles from the Apple Store at Tysons (VA)
    #23
    You bet! Pre-orders at every camera store around this country and the world would be phenomenal! Hey, those big bad boys which weigh six or seven pounds are pretty pricey, too, so you know that our "dream lens" would be $$$$$$$$$ !! Oh, yeah, and I forgot to specify that it would be an f/1.4 lens. LOL! Nah, I'd be happy with an f/2.8 with those other specs....
     
  24. -hh
    macrumors 68020

    -hh

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    NJ Highlands, Earth
    #24
    Since I'm on the Canon EF/EF-S mount, I'm not familar with Nikon's land camera mounts: is the VR similar to the EF-S in that its only for APS frame dSLRs?

    Reason for the question is because if the answer is "yes", then I might be inclined to suspect that that's a signal that suggests that Nikon isn't planning on going to a 35mm sensor "ever".

    Weight is one factor, but cost is probably the bigger one; particularly for good quality glass.

    If you include the crop factor, my EF 75-300mm IS (superceded by Canon to a 70-300) is roughly a 120-480mm IS equivalent, and it only weighs around 1.4lbs.

    Close enough?


    -hh
     
  25. macrumors demi-goddess

    Clix Pix

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    8 miles from the Apple Store at Tysons (VA)
    #25
    No. It's available on full-frame 35mm lenses such as the 80-400 VR, the 70-200 VR and others. Thank goodness!

    This is very true, that cost will be a more daunting factor for many consumers, and those who are primarily hobbyists may not want to make the investment in good glass. In some instances, the consumer may not really understand the differences between certain lenses and only be looking at tele length or zoom range instead of the glass. Many consumers are happy with say, the fairly inexpensive 70-300 lens, not realizing that the glass on it in no way compares to the much more costly 70-200mm VR with an F/2.8 aperture. Some may realize the difference but not be able to afford one lens over the other, or they might not care.

    An important factor in choosing lenses is the camera body, too, as the D200 and the D2x are far more "unforgiving" of poor lens quality than the D70, for instance. It behooves the D200 buyer to be using pro quality lenses on that camera body, whereas it's not quite as critical an issue with a D70.

    Nice, but I want something that is 100-500 without considering the crop factor, and no, I don't want the "Bigma," which is massive. I want a nice light, fast lens with enormous reach.....
     

Share This Page