Dual G4/800 on life support

Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by bousozoku, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #1
    Well, my dual G4/800 is silent again.

    Last night, I did a screen capture and got a kernel panic. Re-boot didn't bring the system back to operating.

    I figure it's the processor card. The fan behind the card has been unsteady lately. I just ordered a PowerLogix 1.6 GHz G4 (7447) card. The photo shows that it has a fan perched over the heatsink so that should take care of the fan problem as well. It'll be interesting to go back to a single processor, especially since the machine didn't start out that way. However, 800 + 800 doesn't equal 1600 in this case, so the 1.6 GHz G4 will most likely be faster in most everything. I suspect that it will be cooler and quieter, too.

    Anything I've missed perhaps? Within the past couple of weeks, I've been fighting with the SuperDrive and the hard drive. What else could happen? :D
     
  2. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #2
    Sound like a new G5 is in order, my friend. :D
     
  3. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    You buy it, I'll accept it. Otherwise, I don't think so. I don't really have money for the processor card.
     
  4. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #4
    Are you certain it's the processor card? If the hard drive and Superdrive were acting strangely, perhaps there's something awry on the logicboard.
     
  5. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #5
    It would be great if you had a second G4 to try your CPU card in, but a flaky CPU card sounds like a likely culprit.

    The 1.6GHz card you ordered is a 1.25 OC'd up to 1.6, so high temperatures still may be an issue. I'm running an OWC card that uses a 1.33 OC'd up to 1.4 with no issues, but your card is a much heavier overclock. Probably no big deal, but something to be aware of.
     
  6. livingfortoday macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Sounds like what happened to me when I had a faulty processor card. RMA'd it, got a new one from Powerlogix, and now the Cube runs fine.

    The good thing about Powerlogix upgrades, especially the '47, is that while they will run pretty hot, you can set it to automatically run at half speed when not being used, or all the time. For example, my dual 1.5Ghz hit temps of 77C when encoding a DVD, so I set the performance on low (both run at 750Mhz now) and it's maxing out at 58C.

    You'll enjoy the new card, trust me. And if you don't know what to do with the old dualie... send it my way!
     
  7. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #7
    I'm 99 percent sure. Unfortunately, the diagnostics aren't built into Mac OS X (it's not an expensive, enterprise operating system) but the last time I ran them after having some weird things happen, they complained about one of the processors.

    Considering that the processor card fan has been unsteady, I would assume that the processor feeling the most heat was overheating and couldn't continue. It's not a tremedously fast system anyway, so the loss of one processor would only be felt in folding@home when one process refused to continue, though I saw no indication that it had stopped until the kernel panic.
     
  8. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #8
    I wonder if there is a way to disable the problematic CPU and go on your merry (neutered) way?

    $250 isn't too bad for a 1.6GHz upgrade though. I paid $300 for my 1.4 (but it does have L3 cache, and seems to benchmark right up there with the 1.7 & 1.8 cacheless CPUs).
     
  9. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #9
    Apple's cards aren't that smart. It's an all or nothing proposition.

    I wanted the dual 1.2 (7457 with L3) cache but it's $500 and would likely be too much heat for the case, considering the wind tunnel design modifcations over my 2001 model. Of course, I could drill holes into the face plate but without engineers and market research, where would it get me? :p

    Also, considering the power of my 1.33 GHz PowerBook, I have little doubt that the 1.6 GHz processor will outperform the throughput of two 800 MHz processors. The 1.33 GHz processor is quite good, even with limited RAM. A single processor with 1.5 GB RAM should be faster since there is no processor contention for memory.

    There is an upside to all this. I get to have my widescreen 1280x768 display connected to my PowerBook with 1280x854 display.
     
  10. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #10
    Catch 22

    I received the processor upgrade today.

    There is a catch. I need to install firmware updates for the processor to be recognised. Imagine trying to replace a dead processor--you can't install anything, right? Great stuff. :mad:

    Can I install the old board again and coax it to work for a few minutes?
     
  11. applemacdude macrumors 68040

    applemacdude

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    #11
    reseat the ram and the proc board..... make sure u reseat it well =]
     
  12. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #12
    If it is overheating, maybe you can run it with the case open to keep it a bit cooler?

    I forgot to mention...that was another one of the things I liked about the OWC upgrades - no firmware updates necessary with a 7457 CPU.

    Hope it works out.
     
  13. doucy2 macrumors 65816

    doucy2

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    #13
    as to the first pot when you compare the dual 800's to the single 1.6ghz
    in this instance i think the 1.6ghz would be fast if you bought the model with 2mb L3 cache
    if not they would probally be about equal
    let us know how its goes, when it is back again

    dont you have to load firmware in OS9
     
  14. law guy macrumors 6502a

    law guy

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    #14
    I've found some good guidence on this page for my G4 PM in the past: http://www.power-mac-g4.com/ Scroll down - here's the section on trouble shooting with some ideas.

    "PUSHING THE CUDA (PMU) SWITCH:

    The CUDA or motherboard reset switch is a last resort. If your computer doesn't come up at all before replacing the power supply usually pressing the switch will restore life to your dead computer. If you don't hear a chime after that then it may be Power Supply time. If your computer fails to come up after a processor swap, overclock, or ram install then it may be time to try the CUDA switch. The CUDA switch looks like a little gray (sometimes red) doorbell button. It is indeed a momentary switch like a doorbell button. This is always done with the POWER OFF!

    Where is the CUDA (PMU) Switch?

    * ON G4 systems it in in the right rear of the motherboard near the battery.

    Hold it down and count to 5, button up things and push the restart while crossing your fingers.
    HELP! I NEED A NEW POWER SUPPLY (probably not):

    Try the CUDA (PMU) switch first. The Power Supply is sometimes fused and while difficult to work on you can usually get to it after removing it from the unit and taking out most of the apparent screws. I usually pry the power supply apart slightly and remove and install the fuse with forceps. Buy the replacement fuse at Radio Shack and try it again. Most techs won't tell you this and will sell you a refurbished power supply and give you a bit for your old power supply when they sell you a new one. They will simply replace the fuse and resell the unit again. Some of the later model G4's don't have a readily identifiable fuse. It is worth checking for though if you have the power supply out of the box.

    Help! I pushed the CUDA (PMU) Switch on my G4 and it still is not working

    Sometimes computers lose their mind. Don't ask me why or how it happens but it does. Sometimes you simply have to totally discharge the computer. One thing I have learned about the Blue and White G3 and The Gray G4 computers is that sometimes pushing the CUDA is not enough. If your machine still is dead, then try the following.

    * Unplug the Unit
    * Remove the Battery
    * Push the CUDA Switch (count to 5 slow)
    * Push the Start button on the front of the computer (count to 5 slow)
    * Let the unit sit for 15-30 minutes
    * Replace the Battery
    * Plug it back in, and push the start button

    Amazing! It works again!! If it doesn't I usually repeat the steps above, pull the ram, and let it sit longer. If it doesn't work after this it is take it to the shop time (or ship it to us).
    DEEP RESET TIP: On G3 and G4 Machines especially when aborting an OSX install really scrambles the computer. You can super reset the computer by Zapping the PRAM 3 times in a row. Then move your fingers from the P R keys to the O F keys (in other words Command - Option - O - F). COOF will bring up a machine language screen. <return> means press the return key you don't type the characters out. At the prompt type the following:

    reset-nvram <return>
    set-defaults <return>
    reset-all <return>"
     
  15. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #15
    Yes, well, it was powering on until pressing the CUDA switch. :eek:

    Now, the power switch doesn't even light up.

    I tried coaxing the old processor card to start but it refused. Of course, by this time, there could be some sort of cascade failure.

    I wonder if it's worth repairing. A service company will charge hundreds of dollars, even without parts, to do repairs.

    It looks like I'm going to transfer what hardware I can into the old blue and white machine, hoping to use the hard drive and possibly, the DVD burner that I just replaced.
     
  16. law guy macrumors 6502a

    law guy

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    #16
    Okay, scratch the CUDA switch notion. :confused: I can't recall - there's no way for that button to get stuck I suppose. Any shop you know of that might give you an estimate? I suppose an estimate is difficult when it's going to take some time just to diagnose the problem. It's sad to think of the PM being put down.
     
  17. bousozoku thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #17
    Well, I can salvage the case. :D Imagine blue and white guts in a Quicksilver case.

    I don't think any shop will be able to give an estimate without pulling it apart, unless I say things like "replace the motherboard and the processor board" and then, I'll get something useful.

    I looked at the used PowerMacs on a typical website and they were charging $999 and up for machines from the same year.

    Thanks to everyone for the help!
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #18
    The Mobo might still be good - before you start parting it out I'd return the CPU upgrade and get one of the 7457/7455 cards that doesn't require firmware updates...plus with L3 cache the 1.4Ghz is at least as fast as your 1.6Ghz.

    Quicksilvers are still expensive used though...I wanted one a year ago but ended up getting my Digital Audio dual 533 'cause the Quicksilvers were all >$700.
     

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