Edward Snowden Charged with Espionage

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Merkava_4, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. macrumors 6502

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    USA
    #1
    The moment we've all been waiting for. The United Police States of America charges Edward Snowden with espionage.

    LINK
     
  2. macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #2
    Maybe there is a good case to say he committed espionage, maybe there are some defences he could run - I don't know but I was hoping the US would have the good sense to leave him alone. With any luck Hong Kong will tell the Yanks to bugger off. I'm sure any decision will take months or even years to go through the courts and appeals anyway.
     
  3. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #3
    Pretty sad, but expected :(.
     
  4. macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #4
    One day he will "mysteriously" disappear .
     
  5. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #5
    a) That sounds very similar to what Alex Jones says.

    b) Not in China he won't.
     
  6. macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #6
    Sad but not unexpected. Snowden should be considered a hero, not a criminal.

    Probably the most disappointing thing to me from this whole thing is I'd thought that Obama was going to be better than Bush when it comes to stopping things like this, but it turns out he's just as bad or worse.
     
  7. macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    So, he is being charged with espionage on the grounds that he made public the extent of the government's espionage. Byzantine doesn't cover it.
     
  8. macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #8
    predictable, he knew it when he did what he did and I’m sure he’s got a plan.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    Happybunny

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    #9
    The only thing that surprised me about this, was that this didn't happen earlier.:(
     
  10. thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Doesn't espionage mean one sells information for money? He didn't make a dime off of the information he gave away. He had a high paying job that paid $200k a year and he gave all that up so he could have a clear conscience.
     
  11. macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    Surely the government should be charging itself with espionage on the basis of Snowden's revelations.
     
  12. macrumors 68030

    Joined:
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    Winnipeg MB
    #12
    It can be that, but spies are the charged with the same crime. Not just for money. That said, China will protect him and give him a life of luxury in exchange for all he knows.

    People may think he's a hero now, but wait until he requests asylum in Beijing. Then he'll be more of a traitor.
     
  13. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #13
    Why would the Chinese want his information? I'm sure they have spies in the NSA who know as much as him who are much lower profile.

    This is a PR win ;).
     
  14. macrumors regular

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    #14
    Hong Kong has an extradition treating with the Us. Aka he was stupid to try and hid there
     
  15. macrumors 65816

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    #15
    pretty mad stuff isn't it just.
     
  16. macrumors demi-god

    Shrink

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    #16
    Would you go with ironic, paradoxical, incongruous...and somewhat Kafkaesque?
     
  17. macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Yes, i don't understand what he was thinking. should of gone to Venezuela or even russia, they don't bend over to US hegemony.
     
  18. macrumors 65816

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    #18
    One may certainly take issue with both the Constitutionality and the invasiveness of the surveillance programs Snowden revealed. But that doesn't make what he did any less illegal.

    The US Government didn't really have any choice but to charge him with crimes in light of what he did. And while many people might applaud his actions, I for one, certainly do not. No unelected 29 year-old has the right to unilaterally decide for himself - no matter how deeply held his convictions - how this country's intelligence operations are to be conducted.

    Lets be very clear about this: He knew, or he should have known, what he was getting into when he joined the intelligence community. Despite his lack of formal education he was (apparently) richly rewarded for his skills. And if he found some aspects of his work in conflict with his morals, he had numerous other options rather than betraying his country's trust in the way he did. He could have quietly resigned. He could have taken his concerns up the chain of command.

    If Mr Snowden really thinks China and Hong Kong represent some sort of bastion of liberty and freedom from surveillance, then he is incredibly naive.
     
  19. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

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    #19
    Erm... he's disappeared already. Indeed, I wonder if the PRC aren't pumping him for information about how to get access to the PRISM information, since they'd love to know what their citizens get up to in the West.

    In any case, aren't there any federal statutes that protect whistle-blowers? (And yes, I would classify the release of PRISM as whistle-blowing in proportion to the information collected having nothing to do whatsoever with crime (probably >99.9999% of it) versus the vanishingly small proportion that is relevant to national security or law enforcement).
     
  20. macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Sounds like you got your daily dose of Fox news this evening programme.

    He never said china was a bastion of freedom and liberty, and wherever you heard that from is just trying to smear his name.

    A betrayal to the country? LOL. Frankly, with the amount of lies and times the state's betrayed the people of america and everyone else in the world i don't think that argument can stand to scrutiny.
     
  21. macrumors demi-god

    Shrink

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    #21
    While your argument is reasonable and well stated, I might suggest that civil and legal disobedience, with the expectation of punishment, has a long history. This case brings to mind the Daniel Ellsberg leaked revelations about the lies promulgated during the Viet Nam War.

    I do not disagree with your premise that Snowden, like Ellesberg, broke his oath, and the law, and should expect and accept the consequences of their actions, I would be willing to consider that whistle blowing has value.

    Whether irreparable damage has been done to the Itelligence Community is certainly open for discussion, it is also arguable, IMO, that the actions, though unlawful, had value.
     
  22. macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    Which is not what he is doing. Ostensibly, he is informing the US people about things done in their name which in his view need to be at least debated to assess their constitutionality.

    Of course he does not. But it is an English-speaking area, and the Chinese will be only too delighted to be seen protecting a US citizen from an abuse of his human rights by the US government.

    ----------

    Oh, all right then.
     
  23. macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Mr Ellsberg did not fly to Hanoi or Cuba in an attempt to avoid prosecution. We may argue in good faith about the merits of revealing the Pentagon Papers versus PRISM, but the fact of the matter is Ellsberg was prepared to take responsibility for his actions. Snowden, on the other hand, seems to be making every effort to ingratiate himself with his Chinese hosts, to the extent of telling them about the NSA's penetration of Chinese computer systems - a program I think few, if any, US citizens feel is contrary to our national values.

    The fact of the matter is that China will most likely end up extraditing him to the US to face justice. But not without first squeezing considerable intelligence and PR value out of the situation. Snowden is not only a criminal, he's also a fool.
     
  24. macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #24
    And you don't think the Government are criminals for hijacking our personal informaton? Then saying that he "stole" government property, that the government itself stole from it's citizens.
     
  25. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    Ultimately I'm sure Beijing still has to agree to the extradition - it sounds like foreign affairs to me, something I'm sure they control.

    Mainland China isn't, but Hong Kong does have a lot of freedoms.

    Why would they do that?
     

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