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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
Address books, even - these may be used for the odd phone call at the moment, not the every day call.

True - most calls (on my WM5 phone) are either "reply to recent call in history" or "speed dial from the short list".

However, when you need the address book it can be a huge help.

(Like when the plane flight's been cancelled, the line at the counter is an hour long, and you have AmEx Travel's help number in your Exchange contact list - and you can get rebooked on the next flight during the time that the line moves forward 4 people, so you exit the line and go to the gate and fly....

Or when you're late, or you arrive at the meeting site and it's 7 towers around a courtyard and you don't have the building/suite/floor/room info in the email that's already on the phone.)
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
I'm not missing that at all. I have no problem accepting 3G--if it adds no cost or bulk--and in fact I want it (though it's not my top priority).

The reasons not to intro 3G in the very first version are business decisions on Apple's end--and I'm speculating that this call will not in fact backfire. Meanwhile those who demand 3G will get what they want down the road.



Wow, I think we have a post worth bookmarking for Son of Thread 500 :D

Good to know your view is the "majority" ;) And here I was thinking the majority currently know nothing more than "iPod good!" and "iPhone? Must be like iPod!"

if by business decision you mean that early adopters will buy the first version for $600 then buy another one when a truly usefiul one with all the bugs worked out for another $600 then you have a point, but i dont see how thats good for us.

as far as a 3g radio adding bulk, cost or battery drain i think that all 3 would be a solid no. i already talked about 3g vs. wifi as far as battery drain, with wifi being far worse due to the fact that its always on. as for bulk, go down to your local cingular store and hold a samsung blackjack, and a blackberry pearl. both have 3g radios, both have all of the features of the iphone, though not the great interface (but thats just software anyhow) they both have smaller screens, but both get great reviews everywhere... they are both considerably smaller than the iphone, and they both can be had for free with a contract (at the cingular stores its $199 with a contract, which is still a bargain compared to $600 for the iphone, but both can be had for free from amazon.com with a contract)...

now if both of those phones are free, smaller, have all the same hardware features, plus a 3g radio, and have been available for months there is no excuse for apple leaving out a 3g radio and charging $600 with a contract other than to take advantage of people who dont know any better... i dont mean to be brash, but im right!... there is no disadvantage to having a 3g radio to anyone! if there is no 3g in your neighborhood then the phone will operate on an edge network, but at least it will be futureproofed because very soon there will be 3g in your neighborhood, and why in gods name would you want to have to buy 2 of these things??
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
if by business decision you mean that early adopters will buy the first version for $600 then buy another one when a truly usefiul one with all the bugs worked out for another $600 then you have a point, but i dont see how thats good for us.

What bugs are you referring to? My point had nothing to do with bugs (though every new product of any kind has some, generally minor).

What's good for us is that 3G is coming to iPhone. Obviously, people who need 3G won't by TWO iPhones :confused: They'll wait, and I will sympathize with their impatience :)

(Also note that the iPhone starts at $499.)

ok then... what hardware features does the iphone have that those 2 dont??

I'm not sure you're serious, but I'll start the list with the big obvious stuff--a multitouch screen (of large size and res to boot) and 4 to 8 GB storage vs. those two with 64 MB :eek: and let other posters keep carrying the list from there...

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/device-detail.jsp?navId=H0,C101,P203#tab_tab_specifications
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/samsung/blackjack.html

And I will also ask if you believe that only "hardware" features have value, or whether software features are useful too? Because therein lie the usability advantages of the iPhone.

It seems as though you may be CHOOSING to define "features" in whatever way makes the iPhone look like it has little to offer. Kind of a word game I guess. Anything the iPhone does that is unique doesn't count, then? I think many phone buyers will disagree :)
 

Zadillo

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2005
1,546
48
Baltimore, MD
ok then... what hardware features does the iphone have that those 2 dont??

Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
What bugs are you referring to? My point had nothing to do with bugs (though every new product of any kind has some, generally minor).

What's good for us is that 3G is coming to iPhone. Obviously, people who need 3G won't by TWO iPhones :confused: They'll wait, and I will sympathize with their impatience :)

(Also note that the iPhone starts at $499.)

but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one

I think we agree that 3G would be better. We disagree that Apple will sell plenty all the same, I guess?

It may indeed be a mistake--we don't know the reasons and they may be really stupid ones--but I think the iPhone will do very well even so, until 3G comes out. (Not that 3G is a must just because it's been out a while... the coverage is what the coverage is. Nor does one feature dictate the price--the price comes from ALL the features.)
 

Zadillo

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2005
1,546
48
Baltimore, MD
but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one

I understand your logic, but the iPhone costs aren't just about the wireless data technology involved. Anyone paying $500/$600 for the iPhone is buying it for the UI, the multitouch stuff, the iTunes functionality, etc. Someone who has an absolute need of a 3G device would of course not buy the iPhone (just as they might avoid, say, a GSM Blackberry with only EDGE).

I think it's only a mistake if Apple had the option to put in full 3G support without sacrificing battery life, making it even more expensive and just decided not do it for the hell of it. I'm going out on a limb here though and assuming that there are technical reasons behind not including 3G support just yet.

Either way, I think everyone expects subsequent iPhones to get upgrades in this area.
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.

ok first off in my post that you were commenting on initially, i mentioned that the iphone has a bigger screen, i already admitted that... everything else you are claiming you have no idea about, use google and find out the facts before you speculate.

YES they are both 3g phones on cingular.

touchscreens add little to no bulk, the multitouch interface is software only

the blackjack works all day on a charge, and comes with an additional battery and charger in the box, in the iphone you cant even remove the battery! and we have no idea whatsoever what the iphone's battery life will be

as far as your other comment about the pearl 'trying to be something else' im dying to hear an explanation of what that is! could you be any more vague?? lets see its a smart phone, with media player, keyboard, it has a camera, it surfs the web, does email.... what exactly is it trying to be that isnt fair to compare??
 

Zadillo

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2005
1,546
48
Baltimore, MD
ok first off in my post that you were commenting on initially, i mentioned that the iphone has a bigger screen, i already admitted that... everything else you are claiming you have no idea about, use google and find out the facts before you speculate.

YES they are both 3g phones on cingular.

touchscreens add little to no bulk, the multitouch interface is software only

the blackjack works all day on a charge, and comes with an additional battery and charger in the box, in the iphone you cant even remove the battery! and we have no idea whatsoever what the iphone's battery life will be

as far as your other comment about the pearl 'trying to be something else' im dying to hear an explanation of what that is! could you be any more vague?? lets see its a smart phone, with media player, keyboard, it has a camera, it surfs the web, does email.... what exactly is it trying to be that isnt fair to compare??

What do you mean "touchscreens add little to no bulk"? You asked what hardware features the iPhone has that the Pearl and BlackJack don't, and I said touchscreens. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I know they don't add bulk, but neither the Pearl or the BlackJack support it.

Re: the BlackJack; I'm basing my comments on the numerous threads where people complain about its battery life.

The Blackberry Pearl on Cingular at least absolutely is not a 3G phone; it supports GPRS and EDGE only.

And you're telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?

Regarding my comment about the Pearl; I mean that it simply is trying to be a Blackberry in a standard phone form factor. I didn't mean that as a knock, only that it is a different type of device.

Calm down, seriously.
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
What do you mean "touchscreens add little to no bulk"? You asked what hardware features the iPhone has that the Pearl and BlackJack don't, and I said touchscreens. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I know they don't add bulk, but neither the Pearl or the BlackJack support it.

Re: the BlackJack; I'm basing my comments on the numerous threads where people complain about its battery life.

The Blackberry Pearl on Cingular at least absolutely is not a 3G phone; it supports GPRS and EDGE only.

And you're telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?

Regarding my comment about the Pearl; I mean that it simply is trying to be a Blackberry in a standard phone form factor. I didn't mean that as a knock, only that it is a different type of device.

Calm down, seriously.

im perfectly calm, its you koolaid drinking fanboys that cant stand even the slightest criticsm of apple that should calm down... ive been using apple since the apple 2e. just because you love your kids do you never admit their faults??

i stand corrected with the pearl's data connection, someone yesterday had one and told me it was 3g, they were wrong, i just googled it. but interestingly the fact that even fairly savy consumers dont know the difference illustrates a point someone else made about apple leaving it out as a business decision. i guess on that hand it makes sense, though it isnt good for us consumers at all.. its even a bit misleading... remember jobs called it 3g in his keynote, and a lot of peoploe will think it is... i guess its good for business but its annoying, like when apple puts a crappy graphincs card in one of their computers... most people dont notice but it sucks none the less


as far as the pearl 'trying to be a blackberry' what the hell is the difference?? in the beginning there were treos and blackberries, now there are winmo devices, and a few symbian ones, soon there will be iphones... they are all smartphones, dude... the target market for blackberries is the same as all the others, they are all phones, with multimedia functions, mp3 players, cameras, web browsers... your argument is like saying that its unfair to compare dell laptops with apple ones because they are trying to be completely different things... one may be better than the other, but that is exactly what 'comparison' is
 

TheSlush

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2007
658
22
New York, NY
Heh... iPhone still says "cingular"

So... Cingular or AT&T... which one is it?

As we've seen, the first iPhone images showed the name "Cingular" up in the corner. Then the iPhone television commercial during Super Bowl XLI showed "AT&T" in the corner, presumably corresponding to AT&T's announced intention to phase out the Cingular brand after their merger.

So surely the switch back to "Cingular" in this photo can't just be an oversight, right? I would presume that AT&T is dictating which name Apple displays in these promos, since that is the one tiny piece of pixel real estate that is essential to AT&T's branding on the iPhone.

Perhaps AT&T felt the iPhone commercial jumped the gun too quickly in replacing Cingular's name? Perhaps the Cingular management made a stink? Or does this back-and-forth simply mean that the brands are in flux and nothing's yet decided?
 

Zadillo

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2005
1,546
48
Baltimore, MD
im perfectly calm, its you koolaid drinking fanboys that cant stand even the slightest criticsm of apple that should calm down... ive been using apple since the apple 2e. just because you love your kids do you never admit their faults??

i stand corrected with the pearl's data connection, someone yesterday had one and told me it was 3g, they were wrong, i just googled it. but interestingly the fact that even fairly savy consumers dont know the difference illustrates a point someone else made about apple leaving it out as a business decision. i guess on that hand it makes sense, though it isnt good for us consumers at all.. its even a bit misleading... remember jobs called it 3g in his keynote, and a lot of peoploe will think it is... i guess its good for business but its annoying, like when apple puts a crappy graphincs card in one of their computers... most people dont notice but it sucks none the less


as far as the pearl 'trying to be a blackberry' what the hell is the difference?? in the beginning there were treos and blackberries, now there are winmo devices, and a few symbian ones, soon there will be iphones... they are all smartphones, dude... the target market for blackberries is the same as all the others, they are all phones, with multimedia functions, mp3 players, cameras, web browsers... your argument is like saying that its unfair to compare dell laptops with apple ones because they are trying to be completely different things... one may be better than the other, but that is exactly what 'comparison' is

Can you lay off the insults? I'm not a koolaid drinking fanboy and I haven't said that Apple can't be criticized.

Sheesh.

I think you might have misunderstood my point about the Blackjack and Blackberry Pearl though.

Yes, they are all smartphones, but the specific device functionality is different for each, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Just looking at the Blackberries alone, there is a pretty wide gulf in actual usability between something like the Blackberry 8800 and the Pearl, just due to the form factor and different type of keyboard.

And similarly, there is a significant difference between devices like the Blackjack and the Q running Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition, and something like, say, the Treo 750 or the Cingular 8525 running

These devices may all be smartphones, but there are a lot of differences in what their strengths are. The Blackberry is the epitome of a device aimed at e-mail, for example.

It's a reason why you have Blackberry-like devices like the Q and Blackjack running Windows Mobile Smartphone, and devices like the Treo 750 and Cingular 8525 and their full-fledged Windows Mobile OS.

This is really the fundamental point I'm trying to get at. A Blackberry and a Cingular 8525 may all have "e-mail" as a feature, but they aren't all equally good at it. And similarly, the Blackberry and the 8525 may both have web browsers, but they also aren't all equally good at it.

My point with the iPhone is that I don't think it is trying necessarily to compete head-on with devices like the Treo, the Blackberries, the Q, the Blackjack, etc.

There are things that each of these devices will do well, but not all for the same type of audience.

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

Really, I think the role of the iPhone is more to offer some "smartphone-like functionality" to people who don't actually want to deal with the ins and outs of the Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Blackberries, etc.

I don't think Apple is wholly off-base here.

If you look at the marketing for the Blackjack and the Treo 680, for example, they are aiming them largely at consumers; they're trying to sell the idea that these have more full featured capabilities than the typical cellphone someone might buy.

But I think that in reality, a Treo 680 for example has a lot of quirks, as does the Blackjack, the Q, etc........... they are fine for a certain audience, but for people who are interested in the ability to run more full featured e-mail and web browsing and music playing functions, it isn't necessarily the best platform.

The strength of these devices are definitely clear, but I don't think that the Blackberries and Treos and Q's of the world are highly suited for consumer use.

The role of the iPhone, I think, is to have a sort of hybrid - the more advanced functionality of "smartphones" but with a very slick and easy to use interface that wouldn't have the same kind of learning curve or issues that Palm OS, WinMob, etc. have.

The iPhone isn't necessarily supposed to get a hardcore Blackberry user to look at it and say "Oh, yes, this will suit all my needs". But I think it can attract someone who might be looking at a new phone, like the idea of mp3 playback, but find the music players on normal phones to be kind of limited, but also find the Treos and Q's to be a little more cumbersome UI and OS-wise than they want to deal with.

-Zadillo
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
Can you lay off the insults? I'm not a koolaid drinking fanboy and I haven't said that Apple can't be criticized.

Sheesh.

I think you might have misunderstood my point about the Blackjack and Blackberry Pearl though.

Yes, they are all smartphones, but the specific device functionality is different for each, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Just looking at the Blackberries alone, there is a pretty wide gulf in actual usability between something like the Blackberry 8800 and the Pearl, just due to the form factor and different type of keyboard.

And similarly, there is a significant difference between devices like the Blackjack and the Q running Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition, and something like, say, the Treo 750 or the Cingular 8525 running

These devices may all be smartphones, but there are a lot of differences in what their strengths are. The Blackberry is the epitome of a device aimed at e-mail, for example.

It's a reason why you have Blackberry-like devices like the Q and Blackjack running Windows Mobile Smartphone, and devices like the Treo 750 and Cingular 8525 and their full-fledged Windows Mobile OS.

This is really the fundamental point I'm trying to get at. A Blackberry and a Cingular 8525 may all have "e-mail" as a feature, but they aren't all equally good at it. And similarly, the Blackberry and the 8525 may both have web browsers, but they also aren't all equally good at it.

My point with the iPhone is that I don't think it is trying necessarily to compete head-on with devices like the Treo, the Blackberries, the Q, the Blackjack, etc.

There are things that each of these devices will do well, but not all for the same type of audience.

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

Really, I think the role of the iPhone is more to offer some "smartphone-like functionality" to people who don't actually want to deal with the ins and outs of the Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Blackberries, etc.

I don't think Apple is wholly off-base here.

If you look at the marketing for the Blackjack and the Treo 680, for example, they are aiming them largely at consumers; they're trying to sell the idea that these have more full featured capabilities than the typical cellphone someone might buy.

But I think that in reality, a Treo 680 for example has a lot of quirks, as does the Blackjack, the Q, etc........... they are fine for a certain audience, but for people who are interested in the ability to run more full featured e-mail and web browsing and music playing functions, it isn't necessarily the best platform.

The strength of these devices are definitely clear, but I don't think that the Blackberries and Treos and Q's of the world are highly suited for consumer use.

The role of the iPhone, I think, is to have a sort of hybrid - the more advanced functionality of "smartphones" but with a very slick and easy to use interface that wouldn't have the same kind of learning curve or issues that Palm OS, WinMob, etc. have.

The iPhone isn't necessarily supposed to get a hardcore Blackberry user to look at it and say "Oh, yes, this will suit all my needs". But I think it can attract someone who might be looking at a new phone, like the idea of mp3 playback, but find the music players on normal phones to be kind of limited, but also find the Treos and Q's to be a little more cumbersome UI and OS-wise than they want to deal with.

-Zadillo

its you who first insulted me, not the other way around, i was having this debate with another user all evening before you chimed in, and there were zero insults exchanged... you reap what you sow... but back on topic...

though i disagree about the intended audience or at least usefulness to certain audiences we will have to agree to disagree... i see your point, but disagree... i have been using a treo 650 since it forst came out, and not as a business tool... in my business cellphones arent used at all, in fact that would be dangerous... also i dont see any difference between the 650 and the 680 besides the fruity colors... actually the 680 is upgraded mildly, but the only reason its intended audience is the consumer is that that is the way it was marketed, and the price was brought down (now if thats a way to make a phone more aimed at the consumer apple is way off base with a price point of $600)

you say that the iphone is better for people who are looking for a better interface for full featured web browsing, and that brings me straight back to my original gripe this evening: no 3g! if the big point of the iphone is full featured web browsing than what the hell is the deal with edge... used dialup lately?? edge is about the same speed, it sucks, i use it every day, and i guess its better than nothing, but the fact that 3g is commonplace in free phones and not in a $600 "meant for full featured web browsing" phone put out by apple, the best multimedia hardware company on the planet boggles my mind, and the only logical explanation is that they are banking on consumers not knowing the difference when they plunk down their hard earned money... it sucks and its anti consumer
 

MacbookSwitcher

macrumors 6502
Mar 13, 2007
299
1
I got the impression that it was the other way around... that the majority were wowed, and a few (apparently including yourself) thought it useless.

It is a very nice phone. It does things no other phone does. Very few people mention multitasking, yet I have no idea how to do this or if it is even possible on any other phone... try e-mailing someone a photo while talking to them. Or better yet, try taking a photo while talking to someone, and then e-mailing it to them, all without hanging up.

Also, the phone's biggest advantage is most likely its simplicity. Most of the "features" on smartphones or even normal phones may never be used more than once, because they are too cumbersome. Address books, even - these may be used for the odd phone call at the moment, not the every day call.

Very few people have used one, and I certainly haven't, so I can't tell for sure, but the iPhone appears to be THE OPPOSITE of cumbersome.

But the features which many people seem to ignore:
1. Ease-of-use
2. Multitasking
3. Web browser (only similar one in Nokia S60, and both are built on the same engine - don't even bring up MSIE mobile or any of the others. They just don't compare.)
4. iPod (other phones may have music capabilities, but... who uses them (much))

All of those features seem to get ignored.

You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned. Windows Mobile is a multitasking OS that can run multiple processes at once. I have actually taken a picture while talking on the phone. You can browse the web, switch to an SMS, then switch right back to pocket IE, all while listening to music with Windows Media Player.
 

Zadillo

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2005
1,546
48
Baltimore, MD
its you who first insulted me, not the other way around, i was having this debate with another user all evening before you chimed in, and there were zero insults exchanged... you reap what you sow... but back on topic...

though i disagree about the intended audience or at least usefulness to certain audiences we will have to agree to disagree... i see your point, but disagree... i have been using a treo 650 since it forst came out, and not as a business tool... in my business cellphones arent used at all, in fact that would be dangerous... also i dont see any difference between the 650 and the 680 besides the fruity colors... actually the 680 is upgraded mildly, but the only reason its intended audience is the consumer is that that is the way it was marketed, and the price was brought down (now if thats a way to make a phone more aimed at the consumer apple is way off base with a price point of $600)

you say that the iphone is better for people who are looking for a better interface for full featured web browsing, and that brings me straight back to my original gripe this evening: no 3g! if the big point of the iphone is full featured web browsing than what the hell is the deal with edge... used dialup lately?? edge is about the same speed, it sucks, i use it every day, and i guess its better than nothing, but the fact that 3g is commonplace in free phones and not in a $600 "meant for full featured web browsing" phone put out by apple, the best multimedia hardware company on the planet boggles my mind, and the only logical explanation is that they are banking on consumers not knowing the difference when they plunk down their hard earned money... it sucks and its anti consumer

Where exactly did I insult you? I've looked through my original response to you, and I don't see it:

Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.

Where exactly do you see an insult to yourself in there? If it's the "touchscreens maybe?" line, I hardly see how that is an insult. Again, it was a response to the question about what was different hardware-wise.

Anyway, about the Treo 680; you are right; outside of the upgraded Phone app, the actual device isn't that different from the Treo 650. The difference is in the marketing; Palm has been trying to market the Treo 680 to a new audience, to consumers, to expand it beyond the realm of the typical Treo user.

My problem with this is that the Palm OS has a lot of issues with it, and I personally don't think it is necessarily suitable for some of the people Palm is trying to push the Treo 680 on (like you, I also have a Treo 650, and the things I have to deal with it are exactly why I don't normally recommend it to some people).

Anyway, yes, I agree with you about the lack of 3G; full web browsing over EDGE will be problematic (as you and I no doubt know from using the Treo 650).

Again though, I don't think Apple's intention is to be anti-consumer, or even to bank on people not knowing the difference. I do think they might be expecting people to be using the wifi a lot more though (which is why they have emphasized its ability to switch automatically between wifi and edge).

Realistically I think that a lot of the iPhone will be driven more by widgets, etc. which are better suited for EDGE at this point, and I think the expectation would be that the full web browsing would be done more commonly when wifi is around.

Either way, again, Apple has already made it clear that 3G is coming - Jobs said it himself during the unveiling; if they were trying to be anti-consumer they would specifically say 3G wasn't important or that they had no plans for it.

I am again going to make an assumption that there are technical reasons behind the fact that the initial iPhone device doesn't have 3G.

I'm still going to assume it is a battery life issue, looking at the battery life complaints of the Blackjack (again, read through any cingular/blackjack forum and you'll see tons of users complaining about it.... it's not like I'm making this up).

But we all know 3G is coming to the iPhone, so I don't really see the point of continuing to harp on it at this point.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

Right now when I travel with my laptop I HAVE to use dialup. A phone jack is the only thing I'm sure to find in every home, office, or motel. It's no DSL but it does the job (and many people use it as their daily Internet--I did until 6 months ago myself, and I've run an Internet-based business for years).

If an EDGE iPhone can equal the dialup I already use... but without needing to find a phone jack or lug a laptop, that will be a big step up for me.

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)

You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned.

You mean it does #2, but not the other 3 he listed? And maybe #3: Does Windows Mobile browse full Web pages just as you see them on a computer? Or Web pages in "mobile form"?

The Treo certainly doesn't have an iPod built in... not with 128 MB storage :p (To say nothing of the ease-of-use that defines the iPod, and is finally surpassed by the iPhone.)

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo750/specs.html

For comparison: http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

(Wow, that Treo has about the same dimensions as iPhone... except for being over 3/4" thick! The iPhone is less than half an inch. As the owner of an old .75" iPod--thinner than the Treo--I can say I would NOT want to pocket a Treo every day if I had a choice in the matter.)

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

True--some will prefer one kind of keyboard, some the other (once they actually try both for a time). I can't yet know which I'd prefer myself for typing, although I'll gladly take the multitouch regardless, for the sake of screen size and flexibility.

I wouldn't rush to assume that tiny physical keys are superior, though. That's something people should decide after trying. Physical keys do provide valuable tactile feedback as opposed to just audible and visible. BUT, you are looking at your phone anyway, so touch-typing is not the goal. And with physical buttons you must avoid pressing neighboring buttons. But with the iPhone, you are MEANT to "press" neighoring buttons--the phone reads the button in the center of your press. (Multitouch to the rescue.) So unless you go really fast, I'd bet it's hard to hit the wrong letter on the iPhone. Learning curve? Sure... but it sounds worth gaining habits.

From a Treo review: "Although you can feel each key below your thumbs, they are small enough and spaced tightly enough that your thumb winds up resting on more than one key at a time when typing. If you don't press straight down, or if your thumb is off center slightly, it is too easy to press a neighboring key instead of your intended target. "

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/review_treo_750/index.php?p=o2

Anyway, about the Treo 680; you are right; outside of the upgraded Phone app, the actual device isn't that different from the Treo 650. The difference is in the marketing; Palm has been trying to market the Treo 680 to a new audience, to consumers, to expand it beyond the realm of the typical Treo user.

Well, not just marketing: user interface and ease of use. Same reason the iPod surpassed earlier players. This is THE big thing the iPhone offers. (It will matter to some more than others.)
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

..snips...

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)


As far as I know, most carriers don't differentiate between data types. A data plan is a data plan, and you will get whatever your phone supports in areas where it is available.

Hence, 3G if it supports it if not you back down to EDGE. I am pretty sure they cost the same no matter what.
 

rlreif

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2003
142
0
Vancouver
Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

Right now when I travel with my laptop I HAVE to use dialup. A phone jack is the only thing I'm sure to find in every home, office, or motel. It's no DSL but it does the job (and many people use it as their daily Internet--I did until 6 months ago myself, and I've run an Internet-based business for years).

If an EDGE iPhone can equal the dialup I already use... but without needing to find a phone jack or lug a laptop, that will be a big step up for me.

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)



You mean it does #2, but not the other 3 he listed? And maybe #3: Does Windows Mobile browse full Web pages just as you see them on a computer? Or Web pages in "mobile form"?

The Treo certainly doesn't have an iPod built in... not with 128 MB storage :p (To say nothing of the ease-of-use that defines the iPod, and is finally surpassed by the iPhone.)

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo750/specs.html

For comparison: http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

(Wow, that Treo has about the same dimensions as iPhone... except for being over 3/4" thick! The iPhone is less than half an inch. As the owner of an old .75" iPod--thinner than the Treo--I can say I would NOT want to pocket a Treo every day if I had a choice in the matter.)



True--some will prefer one kind of keyboard, some the other (once they actually try both for a time). I can't yet know which I'd prefer myself for typing, although I'll gladly take the multitouch regardless, for the sake of screen size and flexibility.

I wouldn't rush to assume that tiny physical keys are superior, though. That's something people should decide after trying. Physical keys do provide valuable tactile feedback as opposed to just audible and visible. BUT, you are looking at your phone anyway, so touch-typing is not the goal. And with physical buttons you must avoid pressing neighboring buttons. But with the iPhone, you are MEANT to "press" neighoring buttons--the phone reads the button in the center of your press. (Multitouch to the rescue.) So unless you go really fast, I'd bet it's hard to hit the wrong letter on the iPhone. Learning curve? Sure... but it sounds worth gaining habits.

From a Treo review: "Although you can feel each key below your thumbs, they are small enough and spaced tightly enough that your thumb winds up resting on more than one key at a time when typing. If you don't press straight down, or if your thumb is off center slightly, it is too easy to press a neighboring key instead of your intended target. "

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/review_treo_750/index.php?p=o2

on cingular data is data... it costs $40 per month unlimited whether you use edge or 3g.... the only break is if the device is a 'smartphone' vs a 'pda'... the blackjack for example is classified as a smartphone therefore the data is $20 per month unlimited even though it uses 3g... the treo is a pda so it costs 40 even though it uses edge... i think the touch screen has something to do with the designation but dont quote me on that... i dont know who decides these things...

also the treo does have an ipod built in if you set it up that way... ptunes is actualy pretty good, but its 3rd party software... i like that about the treo the third party software is pretty cool... with ptunes and a 2 gig sd card the music function works pretty well... im sure with a 4gb card it would be better... obviously the iphone will excell at the music function and will blow it away, but the treo has been around for 4 years, and it deserves some cred
 
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