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Tig Bitties

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2012
5,283
5,367
IMO; I like how they all think it's marketing and advertising as being the fault of the iPhone :rolleyes:

How bout Apple accept the fact they make a very stale and boring product lately. The iPhone 5S is just more of the same, since the iPhone 4. Apple needs another breakthrough product like the iPhone 4 was back in 2010, four years ago.

Apple needs to make a 4.8" iPhone 6, with a large battery to compete with these all day long lasting Android phones, but still keep it thin and light, with a fresh new design that Apple is famous for. Plus allow Live Tiles / Widgets or something similar on the home screen finally.

The iPhone 4, 4S, 5 and 5S design theme, is getting stale and outdated already. Time for Apple to shake it up again, like I know they can, stop playing it so safe, and come out with something groundbreaking.
 

barberio

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2009
104
0
Meh - I'm talking about successful across all consumer categories. You're right - smartphones were successful in some sectors.

Smartphones were a niche product before Apple came along. While I agree the original iPhone was far less than smartphones at the time, most people had no idea because they didn't USE smartphones. The iPhone took the smartphone concept and made it work for everyone.

And I'm pretty sure he's talking about the form... And yes, Apple did develop the idea of a flat-slate rectangle being what you used as a smart phone. Remember before the iPhone design leaked, everyone was designing 'smart phones' with keyboards. Keyboards on the lower half, clamshell keyboards, slide out keyboards. Everyone was designing 'smart phones' that looked nothing like the iphone. Then after the 2006-2007 leaks of what the iphone looked like, everyone starts designing smart phones that look like the iphone. It's pretty clear that Apple got there first on the form factor and control system of a 'smart phone'.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
As a marketing professional, I think the agency they are working with now has ZERO clues about how to leverage Apple as a brand anymore. Apple has some really great products right now and this idiot is comparing the 2013 Apple to the Apple of 1997?????????????????????? That response would have let me to fire them as an agency right then and there. They don't get it and that email proved it.

We honestly don't know the full story.

It's possible that the agency was trying to present some disruptive ads and marcom/execs kept saying no. Then comes an email from Phil "complaining" about the competition and needing a disruptive ad. While I don't agree with the tone of the Agency - who knows the conversation(s) that took place before or after. This is just one moment in time.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
Oh I'm sorry... I forgot that America is the friggin centre of the universe! And no you are not the largest consumer base because then you would have to have more population than the rest of the planet, and are you even the biggest economy still? Hasn't China overtaken you yet?

Your being incredibly naive, the Ericsson R380 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson_R380 (bet you've never heard of that right?) was launched in 2000, a full fat 7 years before the iPhone, the R380 was the first phone in the west at least to be advertised as a smartphone, and they went from strength to strength to strength.

All Apple did was manage to reignite a stagnant market, it did nothing to create it. Loads of people had smartphones from Nokia and Sony Ericsson and HTC and other Windows mobile makers before the iPhone.

I'm not going to list every single smartphone launched from 2000 to 2007 on here as their are far too many, go and Google it.

But to try and state Apple invented the smartphone market, or even the smartphone is just flat out wrong and ignorant.

"Loads of people" - how scientific.

Consumer base =/= sheer number of people. The average American has more purchasing power than the average Chinese person.

Here's the list of largest consumer markets in the world in 2009: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets

You are correct that China is predicted to move ahead of the US by 2018:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_economy#2010_.E2.80.93_2018_China_will_lead_economic_growth.

Still doesn't get around the fact that for a MAJORITY of people in the world, the smartphone was not a known product category.

How many of those Ericsson R380's were sold? How many smartphones existed in the world before 2007? How many after?

There's a difference between "pioneer" and "innovator". The pioneers pave the way - what Apple did would not have been possible without the ones that went before them. But Apple was in fact the start of our modern smartphone industry - an industry that is completely different from the pre-2007 industry.
 

Richardgm

macrumors 6502a
Aug 1, 2008
968
719
What about that commercial tells me the Samsung device is better?


But there are so many commercials from Samsung out right now that are harping on why their device is better than Apple's. And I think those are more compelling than an ad from Apple telling me that people with awesome jobs can do cool things with their iPads.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
And I'm pretty sure he's talking about the form... And yes, Apple did develop the idea of a flat-slate rectangle being what you used as a smart phone. Remember before the iPhone design leaked, everyone was designing 'smart phones' with keyboards. Keyboards on the lower half, clamshell keyboards, slide out keyboards. Everyone was designing 'smart phones' that looked nothing like the iphone. Then after the 2006-2007 leaks of what the iphone looked like, everyone starts designing smart phones that look like the iphone. It's pretty clear that Apple got there first on the form factor and control system of a 'smart phone'.

Apple had the first popular full touch "smart"phone.

But you're wrong about other OEMs "copying" the form factor. Having worked in the industry before the iPhone, I can assure you (as only an anonymous poster can) that the company I worked for (at least) has a few full touch form factors (no keyboard) in the pipeline a good year or two before 2007.
 

576316

macrumors 601
May 19, 2011
4,056
2,556
I would not take anything that individual had to say seriously purely for the complete lack of basic punctation and capital letters. That email was an eye sore.
 

brianvictor7

macrumors 65816
Oct 24, 2013
1,054
429
United States
Not to mention the terrible grammar -- "we have began"? Hope whoever wrote it doesn't get to do any copywriting...

She wasn't writing a term paper for an english professor. Her entire style speaks of someone who is used to rushing through her email chain, to the point that she doesn't bother with caps. While this is mildly unprofessional, it is a quirk that can be overlooked provided she can do her job well. Not saying I would encourage lower caps or to not proof-read emails before sending. Just saying it isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme.

On that note, had she proofed her message, she might have foreseen how Phil would have reacted. There's a lesson there for us all.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
But there are so many commercials from Samsung out right now that are harping on why their device is better than Apple's. And I think those are more compelling than an ad from Apple telling me that people with awesome jobs can do cool things with their iPads.

Most of which have to do with pixel counts or multi-user ability or "multitasking" (which only works for specific apps....of course that's never mentioned in the ad).

I simply find ads that lock their competitors into one specific function (ala the drama shot ad) that they then bash to be misleading and childish.

The truth is there are apps that take "drama shots" and ways to lock apps so kids can't delete your stuff etc etc.....

But in Samsung's ads....if its not the Samsung way, it doesn't exist....

Talk about pretentious.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,271
12,994
where hip is spoken
As a marketing professional, I think the agency they are working with now has ZERO clues about how to leverage Apple as a brand anymore. Apple has some really great products right now and this idiot is comparing the 2013 Apple to the Apple of 1997?????????????????????? That response would have let me to fire them as an agency right then and there. They don't get it and that email proved it.
...are we supposed to think that someone who uses 22 "?" DOES have a clue how to leverage Apple as a brand? :confused:

totally agree.... theres no excuse for poor grammar and punctuation it just reflects poorly on an person. in my company youd be fired for less.
LOL
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
Ok? So outside the world's largest economy and largest consumer base.....

How many smartphones existed before the iPhone. What do you mean by "popular"? Were there 10,000 smartphones in the world....100,000? 1,000,000?

by 2007, RIM alone had over 10 million subscribers.

This is only ONE company of the several who were producing smart phones at the time of the Iphone début.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Still doesn't get around the fact that for a MAJORITY of people in the world, the smartphone was not a known product category.

How many of those Ericsson R380's were sold? How many smartphones existed in the world before 2007? How many after?

There's a difference between "pioneer" and "innovator". The pioneers pave the way - what Apple did would not have been possible without the ones that went before them. But Apple was in fact the start of our modern smartphone industry - an industry that is completely different from the pre-2007 industry.

WRONG! The MAJORITY of the rest of the world outside America DID know about the smartphone before the iPhone, if not for Nokia's constant advertising, again you are being very ignorant to ignore that, you just simply feel Apple and America are the centre of the universe, anything else Apple or America haven't done or made simply does not exist right?

Like I said, go and Google it, because all the facts are out there, and the R380 was more innovative and pioneering in 2000 than anything Apple made, again that is an ignorant statement to make.

I should perhaps remind you pre iPhone, we had internet, email, picture and video SMS, 3G, bluetooth, video calling, APPS and APP STORES, good cameras.

Apple did not pioneer in anything with the iPhone save a multitouch screen.
 

HenryDJP

Suspended
Nov 25, 2012
5,084
843
United States
I'd be pissed off too if I were Phil. Samsung has been on point these past 2 years in marketing and throwing everything including the kitchen sink at Apple.

The only thing Samsung hasn't done is turn out anything really far ahead of Apple in terms of product design. They spent more money in advertising and less time and resources on actual innovations.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
The only thing Samsung hasn't done is turn out anything really far ahead of Apple in terms of product design. They spent more money in advertising and less time and resources on actual innovations.

Show me that chart or link please.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
by 2007, RIM alone had over 10 million subscribers.

And every phone RIM made in 2007 was a "smartphone"?

RIM was also the company that held on to the keyboard too long and failed to modernize.

I think perhaps this all stems from the various definitions of a "smartphone". In some ways, RIM's devices were not smartphones compared to today's devices. Hell, in a lot of ways, the original iPhone wasn't a smartphone compared to other devices in 2007.

But let's look at the industry before 2007 (RIM driven, Palm driven - half keyboard devices with rudimentary browsing capability, email etc) and after 2007 (full touchscreen devices, app stores, content streaming etc).

I'm not saying Apple is SOLELY responsible and I'm not saying they are responsible for EVERYTHING. Simply that the development of our modern smartphone industry can be traced to Apple and the iPhone. That's all.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
I see the problem here. The ad guy either thinks he's e.e. cumming's spirit or he's too lazy to hit the shift key. Especially for someone in the words and communication business, sending a client a memo in all lower caps is poor form and arrogant.
 

ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,393
25
Essex (UK)
Was that agency behind this or is that an apple only thing?

iphone-image.jpg


Possibly the only Apple thing to have emerged recently that made my skin crawl with cheesyness.
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
And every phone RIM made in 2007 was a "smartphone"?

RIM was also the company that held on to the keyboard too long and failed to modernize.

I think perhaps this all stems from the various definitions of a "smartphone". In some ways, RIM's devices were not smartphones compared to today's devices. Hell, in a lot of ways, the original iPhone wasn't a smartphone compared to other devices in 2007.

But let's look at the industry before 2007 (RIM driven, Palm driven - half keyboard devices with rudimentary browsing capability, email etc) and after 2007 (full touchscreen devices, app stores, content streaming etc).

I'm not saying Apple is SOLELY responsible and I'm not saying they are responsible for EVERYTHING. Simply that the development of our modern smartphone industry can be traced to Apple and the iPhone. That's all.

what yto you defines a smartphone? cause you keep changing the goal posts.

the first iphone for example, was far from a "smartphone". while it had a lot of features that were excellent in a fairly new to market concept. It was lacking one thing that all the other smartphones had at the time. Ability to install custom Applications.

The Palm, BBRY and Microsoft based phones at the time All had this ability. Apple did not (did not appear till July 2008). Heck, the first iPhone couldn't even copy and paste... yet it was a smartphone while the others were not because Blackberries had a keyboard?

don't move the goalposts. If you want to change to say "Full screen touch smartphones", that is different thna just saying "smartphones". And, oh yeah, Apple wasn't the only fullscreen touchscreen smartphone either. There were several non keyboard phones before. They may have featured a few convenience key buttons on the front and sides, but the ultimate navigation of these devices were still via touch input.

And yes, RIM's failures are known. ti wasn't because they weren't smartphones. it was because of horrendus management decisions by the company that set them back nearly 5 years. Bad management can't make up for having a headstart.

I agree with the bolded part though. The iPhone DID shake up the industry. But, i was countering Shiller's statment that they invented the market for smartphones and tablets that didnt exist... they existed. They didnt invent the market. They just took it over.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
WRONG! The MAJORITY of the rest of the world outside America DID know about the smartphone before the iPhone, if not for Nokia's constant advertising, again you are being very ignorant to ignore that, you just simply feel Apple and America are the centre of the universe, anything else Apple or America haven't done or made simply does not exist right?

Like I said, go and Google it, because all the facts are out there, and the R380 was more innovative and pioneering in 2000 than anything Apple made, again that is an ignorant statement to make.

I should perhaps remind you pre iPhone, we had internet, email, picture and video SMS, 3G, bluetooth, video calling, APPS and APP STORES, good cameras.

Apple did not pioneer in anything with the iPhone save a multitouch screen.

Hmm...I wonder why its only now more people are using Smartphones than dumbphones.

If, as you say, companies were far more innovative back in 2000 than Apple has ever been....

You seem to think I'm saying no other smartphones existed before Apple. That's not true. Simply that in 2013, more than 1 billion smartphones were in use around the world. That boom, that market did not start with the devices produced in 2000. That boom, this industry of multi-touch, constantly connected, daily used by everyone and their mother - devices, began in 2007 with the iPhone.
 

CJM

macrumors 68000
May 7, 2005
1,534
1,053
U.K.
I'll not deny, it certainly seemed like Apple was truly in the doldrums last year. Other than iOS7, and a Mac Pro that was in dev for years, we didn't get much except same old, same old.

Hopefully they sorted it all out and will have a more exciting year this time around.

These emails are certainly interesting to read; the insight to the highest echelons of corporate life is intriguing.
 

Richardgm

macrumors 6502a
Aug 1, 2008
968
719
Emails Show Phil Schiller's Displeasure with Ad Agency's Efforts for Apple in...

The only thing Samsung hasn't done is turn out anything really far ahead of Apple in terms of product design. They spent more money in advertising and less time and resources on actual innovations.

I agree their designs are still lacking. However,

"Actual innovations"? I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask if you have used a Galaxy Note or S4 device?

They innovated with their multi-window multitasking.

They innovated with their S-Pen (and the million things you don't want but you can do with it).

They matched and "leapfrogged" the Retina display. That too is an actual innovation.

And what has Apple done since 2010? Increase the size of the iPhone display by .5 inches, gave us beta Siri and Maps, and a fingerprint sensor?

I just re-read your post. Now I'm not sure if you were talking about Apple or Samsung re "actual innovations" :p
 
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