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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by obeygiant, Mar 21, 2007.
Abortion is legal, yes, but getting one should be carefully considered.
Emotional blackmail, and just plain silly.
77.3% of abortions in the US are performed before 10 weeks (59.3% before 8 weeks).
At 10 weeks a fetus (no longer an embryo, semantically), has reached about 1.3 inches in length. It won't typically look like much of anything on an ultrasound.
I agree with obeygiant. This isn't a decision that should be made lightly. A woman knows what she's giving up if she wants an abortion. If she really wants one, it will not matter if she sees a picture of the baby. If it is enough to change the woman's mind, she shouldn't be getting an abortion, if it doesn't, more power to her.
if it won't matter, then why would you insist on showing it to her? it's not your place to put a woman under any more emotional distress.
do you know anyone who's ever had an abortion? i do. it's NOT a decision that is EVER taken lightly, and to assume it is implies irresponsibility, carelessness, and callous indifference on the part of the woman. forcing a woman to have to look at an ultrasound picture is government sponsored moralizing and frankly i find it insulting.
It's not a baby, it's a fetus. A baby doesn't exist until it is born, until then, it's quite simply tissue of the woman's body.
So, it's kind of like a chemical reaction where you turn human when you first come in contact with air?
I don't see what the problem is with making sure the woman is making an informed decision. Remember, we're talking about women that didn't have the mental capacity to figure out that they didn't want to be pregnant in the first place and make the choice to prevent it in the first place.
So, 65% of all women are lacking in mental capacity, huh? At least now we know that you are a mysoginist.
This NIH study shows that 65% of pregnancies are unplanned.
You should ask your mother if you were planned and then ask her what her mental capacity is.
yeeeeaaahhhh. It's kind of Like Darth Vader an Luke Skywalker. They're fighting in Bespin an Vader says "Impressive...but you are not a Jedi yet!" Just like some say a fetus isn't a human yet. See, but Luke has the saber skills and despite his dad trying to kill him, he keeps fighting. Then his dad cuts off his hand...like partial birth abortion.
"you are beaten! It is useless to resist!"
Oh but resist Luke does. Leaving it to fate and the force (aka God) he takes a flying leap off the platform. Just like being born despite your own parents trying to kill you. Then by the time episode VI rolls around, Luke confronts Vader once again.....just like a failed aborted child confronting their parents. Now luke is a Jedi.
"indeed you are powerful as the emperor has forseen."
So then they duke it out again in the throne room in front of the emperor....just like nancy pelosi or Hillary Clinton....and Vader realizing how wrong he was to try to kill his chil flings the emporeror into the reactor core. An so Luke saved the father who tried to kill him and both escape with their honor.
Bottom line....abortion is the dark side.
The government is not moralizing at all. They are showing the woman exactly what is happening. Not showing her is just like a doctor hiding some important aspect of a treatment from a patient.
And, yes, i do know people that have gotten an abortion. She still regrets it to this day. If there is something that can change a woman's mind, then obviously she is not entirely sure that she really wants this. It is irresponsible to not consider every aspect involved in the decision.
I had to have surgery once. they showed me xrays to describe what would be happening while I was knocked out. How if you truly believe the fetus isn't a human can it be traumatizing for the mother? Just cells right? Like a cancerous growth in her stomach that needs to be removed?
Hmmmmm really makes you think.
Semantics. We all know what it is and what it isn't. Quibbling over terms is kind of besides the point.
As for Swarmlord's comment... wow. Just wow. Profoundly ignorant.
All of you conservatives must think that a woman just up and decides she feels like getting an abortion on a whim.
Getting an abortion is ALREADY a tough decision to make. The women in question will have already thought about it for quite a while before deciding to go through with it.
Not only does Swarm think all poor people are dumb, it's women too now. I guess he must really hate poor women.
But really, if you all say it's just tissue...not a living person....why would it be such a hard choice? Just wam bam and toss the fetus in the fetus bag out back right?
So let's see. Conservative are against forcing women to recieve the HPV vaccine, but are for forcing them to see the ultrasound of their baby?
Interesting bit of cognitive dissonance there... What are the limits of what government can force you to do?
Will you support physical restraints on a woman, up to and including Clockwork Orange-style eye opening to make sure they don't close their eyes?
You're ignoring the main question Mac. What's the big deal if it's just useless tissue? That is what you believe right? So the millions of abortions haven't been a form of mass murder, but rather a mass cure as if someone discovered the cure for cancer right?
yeah, that's it. throw the fetus in the fetus bag.
aren't you so funny?
i'm not going to get involved in this discussion because emotions run deep on this one...but i can't believe some of the baseless and simple-minded statements being made here. (i should have known that women who get pregnant unplanned are stupid twits. silly me.)
it should always be carefully considered...always. no question there. i dare say in most instances, it is carefully considered. viewing an ultrasound should not be part of that process. it serves as a guilt trip and nothing more.
No, you're ignoring my question.
I take it it's a tough one?
As for the topic, of course its emotional blackmail. There shouldn't even be a debate on it.
Many abortions are done while the fetus resembles, NOTHING.
An ultrasound can only show you that "cute little penis" or "cute little fingers" during much later trimesters.
thats not to say that abortions at this stage dont occur, but its not the majority I would venture to say.
so seeing an ultrasound of basically a blob of flesh will be hard to sway anyone.
and also, even those who continue with pregnancy and get their usual ultrasounds, most of the time they are only readable by the tech and doctor. soon to be parents typically get ultrasound printouts with marker on them to show what they are even looking at.
I truly hope there is some sarcasm in there. If not, please stop posting in this thread.
Congratulations on making just about the most offensive post I have yet seen on MR. Worringly, given some of the other 'views' expressed in this thread I don't expect your record to last very long.
Holy &^@# that is one ignorant statement.
I'm sorry, but if I was on the pill (well, I'm on the ring, but same efficacy), I used a condom, I used Plan B and I STILL got pregnant, I would most likely get an abortion.
Don't you ever forget that none of those above methods of contraception are 99% every single time (even if it was, there's still the chance of pregnancy, contraceptive efficacy is determined by how many women get pregnant..so out of every 100 times one woman has sex with a male partner, 1 woman got pregnant), rather its that for perfect usage, and god knows we forget to take pills, condoms break, and Plan B only works before the pregnancy starts.
And no image of a speck will stop me.
I'll also be spewing mad at any ******* outside Planned Parenthood or any abortion services provider trying to convince me otherwise.
Nobody is going to stop me if I want to have an abortion, least of all a picture. The least you can do is to make me feel comfortable and in the hands of a competent doctor to get an abortion, not to piss me off majorly, cause nobody will be convincing me to follow through on the pregnancy successfully.
women dont "have the mental capacity"?! lmao!! I am making informed decisions. Many other women are. Who are you to say they aren't?
Of course it is, and to think otherwise is silly. If I had cancer and the doctor wanted to show me pictures of it, I could simply say "no, just treat me." That's my choice. We all know the purpose behind forcing a woman to see pictures of the fetus before undergoing an abortion.
Yeah, that's it. Exactly it.
This is why it shouldn't be that big a deal to show a woman a picture of the fetus. If she has already made up her mind for sure, a picture wont matter. It is simply a safeguard against hasty decisions. Some women will panic when they unexpectedly get pregnant and not put as much thought into it as they should. Im not saying women aren't intelligent, don't accuse me of that. It can be a panic decision, that was what happened in my friend's case.
Geez, I wonder why women keep getting pregnant when they have those unprotected sex sleepovers. And to think that biological information isn't even available to women until long after their productive years. They just go into heat and wham some lucky dude tags them leaving them with an unfortunate problem to deal with.
Stating the obvious makes me a mysoginist. Oh, ok. Sure.
Sorry, I came from one of those mysoginist families where my parents got married, then had exactly the number of kids they wanted and could afford. Twisted, huh? Thanks for making it personal by bringing my deceased mother into the debate by the way. My mother didn't know the concept of an unwanted pregnancy.