English-only movement gains traction

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by bowens, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. bowens macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #1
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...50356oct15,1,5722281.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

    Since the government has tried to stop groups like the Minutemen, it looks like local governments are on their own to try and stop illegal immigration. I'm glad to see that someone is taking this seriously. If you read the story, you'll see it's not so much about people speaking English but about stopping illegal immigration. If people want to come to this country, I'm all for it as long as they do it legally. I would never dream of moving to Mexico illegally and then expecting everyone to learn to speak English so we could communicate.
     
  2. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #2
    did you watch "the day after tomorrow"? at that time, im sure there will be millions of Americans want to illegally cross into mexico, LOL,
    the problem is there, everybody know it, but apparently the solution wasn't there yet.
     
  3. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #3
    want to copy the article all over since not all of us are registered?
     
  4. bowens thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #4
    Sorry, I just used BugMeNot to login the other day and I guess it remembered me.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    People who want to come here need to do it legally yes, but if you think that "English only" is going to fix that, you're wrong. I'm sorry, but that's like putting a band aid on a gaping gunshot wound.
     
  6. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #6
    I can understand a transition period for immigrants to learn English. There is no reason that people living in this country shouldn't know English, even though it's a complex language. It shouldn't have anything to do with illegal aliens. Living around the Orlando area, there have been a lot of issues with people here wanting the schools to teach in Spanish and wanting the police to speak Spanish. We have plenty of legal immigrants here who can avoid English because every store and bank bends over backwards to give them a crutch. I've seen many of them go out of their way to make it difficult for non-Spanish speakers. I'd probably find it pretty disconcerting to have someone talking to me in a language I didn't understand.

    It's also interesting to me that some of these legal immigrants think that it's okay to support illegal aliens by protests but don't support them in learning English or getting their immigration problems fixed until it's news.

    It's silly that the English-only movement is being combined with the fight against illegal aliens because, at least in Floriduh, one has nothing to do with the other.
     
  7. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #7
    Haha. So, O'Hare is pissed off about business offering spanish language documents to customers because he thinks it is a way of telling them they don't need to learn English. But look at his own business. He's a personal injury lawyer, which means he is scummy already, but then he turns around and offers his services in Spanish as well as English. I guess it's alright for him to do it but nobody else.

    The problem with English-only legislation (besides it being racist) is that it doesn't keep out just undocumented immigrants, it keeps out EVERY immigrant. No immigrant (undocumented or legal) is going to want to settle in a community that clearly doesn't welcome them. In the long run, the English-only legislation is going to hurt the communities more than O'Hare thinks immigrants moving to his town will.
     
  8. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #8
    I'm still not sure I buy the whole "illegal immigrant" rigamarole anyway. I don't see the logic behind "someone wants to come here, work, become prosperous and add to the economic and cultural value of my country? Hell no!" mind-set.

    As for this guy, wouldn't he make more money (and be happier overall) trying to engage people as customers rather than getting his blood pressure up that their not "supposed" to be here?
     
  9. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #9
    Racist? So all of these other countries which have national languages are racists? It's inappropriate for any country to expect their immigrants to learn their language and become fully integrated?

    So, if you are dropped in Hungary or Lithuania or Nepal or Taiwan, you will expect to speak English and be treated equally?
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Um, just a question- do we really want to be like any of those countries? I certainly hope not.
     
  11. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #11
    It might be a good change. I doubt most people, including me, would be truly happy living in Nepal but Hungary would probably be pretty nice. A U.S.A. that's more supportive of its people wouldn't be a bad thing.
     
  12. bowens thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #12
    Of it's legal people. I don't want the government to do one thing to support those who are here illegally. These people don't contribute to our economy by way of paying taxes. This is why we need the Fair Tax. It's a national sales tax. Everyone pays it whether legal or not. There would be no income taxes, just a national sales tax.
     
  13. mdntcallr macrumors 65816

    mdntcallr

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    #13
    illegal immigration is illegal. but that doesnt mean immigration should be stopped. its generally good for the country. but people should be documented, kept track of and regulated. you know LIKE MOST OTHER CIVILIZED nations.

    aside from that i also believe that people coming to USA should know english or learn it. do their best like immigrants of the past.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    False. You are taking the typical right-wing black-and-white look at this issue. While many of them may not pay INCOME tax (and many of them do with fake SSNs, making them taxed without receiving the benefits of being taxed), they all pay sales tax and all other locally collected fees.

    I know, I know, it's easier to paint "these people" all with one nice broad brush. Problem is, it just ain't true...
     
  15. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #15
    Considering that we're both repeating the benefits of such a tax, I'm not sure I can say that it works. We don't pay state income tax in Floriduh and, if we did, we might have schools that weren't at the low end of the list.

    The tourists who pay for us to live here don't gain anything from the tax. People here aren't any happier to see them and I don't know anyone who has ever thanked a tourist for keeping the residents' taxes low.

    In fact, the illegal aliens in Floriduh pay this tax as well, so they are helping to pay for the schools and various other services that they might be receiving. Of course, they're mostly unprotected by the law and can be coerced to do almost anything through fear, including fear of deportation. You'd think that they'd write people in Mexico and tell them to avoid such harassment by emigrating from Mexico legally.
     
  16. bowens thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #16
    I like tourists coming to florida because of this fact. They pay taxes in our state and contribute to our economy. I'm not one for letting the government take money that I've earned. It is my money not their's. Some people act like it the government's money first and they just let us keep some of it. Like when someone gets a tax return they say "I'm getting $2000 back this year." You're getting $2000 that you earned that the government took from you. They're not giving you money. I would much rather have a consumption tax rather than get penalized for wanting to save money.
     
  17. bowens thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #17
    I know illegals pay sales tax but most do not pay any income tax at all. They still receive benifits that our tax dollars pay for. If an illegal goes into a hospital in need of medical attention they're not going to turn them away. But do you think most of them are going to pay anything? No.

    I'm all for people coming to this country legally, but I don't think that someone who comes here breaking the law should have a leg-up on American citizens.
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    Ok, at least you aknowlege the truth.
    Are the (legal) homeless any more likely to pay? If not, doesn't that tell you that this is just a symptom (of a lack of nationalized health care) than a problem in and of itself?

    Did I suggest that? All I'm pointing out is that saying immigrants pay no taxes is false.
     
  19. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #19
    Hungary and Lithuania are multi-lingual countries. German, Serbo-Croatian and Romanian in Hungary and Polish, Russian and English in Lithuania. I can't speak for Nepal, but I'm pretty sure that English is acceptable at most places in Taiwan.

    Unlike the US, many people have the ability and the desire to function in another language.

    Your arguments are very similar to those voiced during the huge German and Irish waves of immigration 100 years ago. How many people in the US speak Irish or German now? Yeah, I thought so, only the ones who've learned it at school.

    My mother's family is a case in point. Her great-grandparents emigrated from Finland. They settled in an area where the majority of immigrants were Finnish and had no need to speak English on a daily basis. My mother didn't learn English until she went to school at the age of five although her mother attended English language schools. My mother can understand Finnish now but can't speak or write or read it. I know only a few words and phrases.

    The world would be better off if Americans weren't so phobic when it comes to understanding a language other than English.

    Do you speak any languages?
     
  20. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #20
    I do okay in 10 or so.
     
  21. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #21
    The Minutemen project is an embarrassment to our elected officials. It points right in their face that they have failed.

    Farmersbranch down here in the DFW are about to take on action as reported a few months back. Caught a lot of heat, especially charges of racism. :rolleyes:

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8JOEHJ80.html

    http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15364287.htm

    http://www.supportfarmersbranch.com/
     
  22. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #22
    Nor do a large percentage of contractors who hire them. And those who are caught and slapped on the wrist would rather pay the $1000 fine and go on with their business, including hiring illegals. Which is the greater sin?

    What would you suggest to improve the sluggish and partial process we presently have with immigration?
     
  23. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #23
    Cool.

    Now, please explain to me why you think that recent immigrants from south of the Rio Grande will never learn English. What about your forebears? How long did it take before they were "fully" integrated (whatever that means)?

    Does it mean giving up their religion (most are catholic), stop eating the foods they are accustomed to? Please explain.
     
  24. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #24
    Frankly, I'm glad the illegals don't pay income tax. We need fewer people paying it....imagine how many more bombs Bush would drop if the illegals paid income tax and the govt could afford more :D
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    Illegal immigrants pay billions in FICA taxes every year with fake numbers and help keep Social Security solvent because they'll never be able to claim for benefits.

    This was discussed in detail here some months ago.
     

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