Environmentalists sue to stop CA renewable energy plants

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MongoTheGeek, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #1
    Not sure what to say...
     
  2. dopefiend macrumors 6502

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    #2
    I'm all for different types of energy, but:

    This is true and is what I've heard about hawaii's . (atleast the plants that I've seen in pictures.)
     
  3. MongoTheGeek thread starter macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #3
    The pictures I've seen of ones in Iceland look fairly innocuous.

    Doing a quick google for images they all seem to be fairly small footprint with a road in and lines out. The only output from them are copious clouds of steam.
     
  4. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #4
    The sad thing is that these environmentalists are shooting down free, cheap and a relatively renewable energy source that isn't going to harm the environment like gas, oil or coal.

    I think what they are complaining about is harm done to their aesthetic tastes in seeing a power plant in the wilderness....blah!

    D
     
  5. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #5
    http://www.ormat.com/projects_613.htm

    look at the power generating capacity! and its renewable.

    So you have a industrial farm in the middle of no where....put a big enough fence around it, or decorate it with ivy or other natural cover and get over it.

    D
     
  6. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #6
    Building a plant that helps the environment by producing clean energy, but ruining the surrounding environment completely.......that sounds counterproductive, I think.

    They're only taking advantage of steam, so what with the dirty industrial comments? What makes them worse than any other plant?
     
  7. hob macrumors 68020

    hob

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    #7
    how can environmentalist be opposed to renewable energy??
     
  8. krimson macrumors 65816

    krimson

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    #8
    I think the problem is that they'll create a giant steaming lake/moat around the plant. Im not sure exactly where this is going to be put in, but I'd rather have a Geothermal plant in the middle of nowhere (including the lake) than a giant fossil fuel plant.
     
  9. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #9
    I think the point is where they are putting it and how it is designed. It is not against the renewable energy, but how it is being implemented. I would guess there is a big reason why...unless they are all smoking too much pot...then maybe it is where they are growing the crops :D Maybe the steam will kill their plants.

    On a more serious note...the recent oil issues abroad and our ignoranance about the real problem with our current energy sources and high usage rates are the important thing to keep in mind. I hope they get this figured out so they can get to work on a good source of energy that IS renewable and not damaging to the landscape *(within reason).

    Johnny
     
  10. MongoTheGeek thread starter macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #10
    Most of the designs that I have seen are not that intrusive and don't have to be. They are fairly low profile, 2 stories, and not all that large, an acre or so) Most of it takes place underground. All you need is a few pumps and a couple of turbines and some heat exchangers. In a decade trees will obscure everything except a steam cloud and external access.
     
  11. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #11
    It seems that environmental groups are all about complaining. They never seem to be happy no matter what. We have the same problem here in Massachusetts. A group wants to build a wind farm 100 miles off of Cape Cod. It would produce enough energy to almost supply the Cape. It's environmental groups that complain. It seems that they won't be happy till we are living in caves again.
     
  12. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #12
    I agree, most of the designs I have seen are similar, but obviously there is a reason they are protesting it at that specific site...I just hope it is a legit one and not just that we need a few more grass blades or trees. Cause if we continue down the non-renewable pollution creating road we are on we are going to living in those caves soon enough as well as having roads that have to be covered due to the pollution like in all the sci fi movies.
     
  13. virividox macrumors 601

    virividox

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    #13
    if enviromentalists had their way we would all be frolicing with rabbits with flowers in our hair in a powerless, techless utopia

    BAH
     
  14. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #14
    I think in the Cape Cod case it's also fishermen and general boat people that don't like it. In a dense fog, it would be very easy to nail one of those suckers right on.
     
  15. Calvinatir macrumors 6502

    Calvinatir

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  16. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #16
    I don't necessarily like or agree the extremest stances many environmentalist groups take, but unfortunately we live in a society where the only real change seems to happen when there are those that take that stance.

    I believe this extremist stance does several things to promote change. It creates discussion like this one here. I know I hadn't thought about boats running into the wind turbines on the ocean during fog and if it hadn't been for this extreme stance being discussed here I might have never known that fact.

    I believe extremests also make it easier for my own comments and thoughts to be heard and not seem so extreme to those that oppose me or don't understand the issue. If there was no one in that "extreme" role then all of the sudden I am extreme...when actually in reality my thoughts are not so extreme.

    The civil rights movement might have never happened if there hadn't been extremist groups to make those speaking about change seem less extreme.
     
  17. e-coli macrumors 68000

    e-coli

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    #17
    Well, that was intelligent. Thanks for your input. :rolleyes:

    I think if they got an environmentally-sensitive architect, they could perhaps bridge the gap between the two groups. But, in the U.S, architecture is not seen as the fusion of art, science, and environmentalism that it truly is.

    I would propose opening up the project to a competition of architects and landscape architects with the goal of creating a site that has a minimal footprint, and minimal environmental impact. One that blends into the surrounding landscape. There's many structures that can be used as precedent for this.
     
  18. kgarner macrumors 68000

    kgarner

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    #18
    It's ironic to me that the environmentalist groups seem to actually keep us more dependent on fossil fuels. They are consistently attacking other means of power production (Hydroelectric, Geothermal, etc.) because of "adverse" effects on the surrounding environment. Yes there will be some adverse effects to the immediate environment, but for right now it does not appear possible to generate power--which we need--without affecting the environment to some dgree. These groups keep these alternative power plants from being constructed essentially forcing us to continue using fossil fuels for power generation. I know they would love to get rid of those as well, but they can't as it is too well established and so it remains our major source of energy.

    If they embraced some of these alternative methods (which they support in principle, but not in practice as evidenced by the many suits against such plants) instead of blocking every attempt to build one, we might be able to decrease our dependence on fossil fuels for power generation. This would only leave our cars still using fossil fuels. Eventually, we could get rid of those as well, but we have to start somewhere.
     
  19. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #19
    Very good idea! And I am still cracking up over your firstl line! :D
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20

    Good thing I'm a conservationist rather than an environmentalist or I'd take that personally.... :rolleyes:
     
  21. Finiksa macrumors 6502a

    Finiksa

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    #21
    I have! Scaling the sides of nuclear powered ships and chaining themselves to trees really builds muscle.

    I highly recommend it…
     
  22. windowsblowsass macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    theese are hippies not enviromentalists (enviromentalists hope for a better enviroment and moan but less so than hippies who like to dress mup and smoke pot and if something looks bad they dont like it also most are opposed to goverment and are hypocrites ie save the enviroment but drive around in a hue bus and do nothing except get high)
    venting done
     
  23. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #23
    If they are going to continue to complain about attempts at renewable energy, then they have no right to complain. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Haven't they every heard of the art of compromise, or is that a dead art?
     
  24. tooflets macrumors newbie

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    #24
    Geothermal plant problem

    The problem that the environmentalists are most likely focusing on is that these would probably be steam turbine plants where water would be injected into the ground, flashed into steam by the geothermal heat, the steam would drive turbines that produce electricity & then the steam would be vented into the atmosphere. This means you require turbines, pumps/injectors, typical mess of electrical distribution equipment & all the associated buidlings. Plus you end up with assorted dissolved chemicals that are leached out of the ground & that then come out with the steam & end up precipitated or rained out both locally & downwind.

    It seems like there should be some way to utilize heatpipe technology to convert the subsurface heat directly into electricity without using the injection & subsequent release of polluted steam.
     
  25. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Why are any of you surprised about this at all?

    Environmentalists are for the environment, they are also against people.
    They would like for everyone to return to subsistence farming using oxen and plow, no, make that no plow and no irrigation ditches, since that would harm the aesthetics of the area.

    Do it for Gaia!!!!

    (Did I do good? Didn't I say what you wanted me to say? Nooooo... no the electric prod. I SAID WHAT YOU WANTED ME TO SAY!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! <ZAP> <whimper> )
     

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