Equality between the sexes.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Xtremehkr, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #1
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    Is it really so much worse when a woman is patted down compared to a man? Really, in the supposed age of equality, why is it ok for men to be patted down and not women?

    The feminist movement continues to push for womens rights, which is not a bad thing. But if there is no thought given to achieving a balance between the sexes will this not eventually lead to some problems somewhere down the line?

    I am glad that the NYT have brought this issue to the forefront, but have they considered that men may not like it other but have accepted that for them it makes little difference as they are expected to deal with it and move on?

    I don't like being patted down either, just my breasts aren't capable of delivering milk doesn't mean that I don't mind them being fondled by another man. What gives?
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    i think what gives is that society views a women's breasts as sexual organs, but less so for a man. so to make the comparison equitable, asking a woman to strip down to her bra in public is like asking a man to drop his trousers.

    on my most recent trip, i was struck by how much i was made to feel like a criminal just trying to get on a plane. arriving at chicago o'hare, i was even flagged for the red line at customs. i suspect it's either because i went into my checked bag to retrieve a jacket (it was cold in chicago), or because i drew suspicion for packing light, something on which a customs agent commented. looking at my over-the-shoulder carry-on, and my short but torso-sized backpack, which i'd checked, she actually said, "where's the rest of your luggage?"

    guess that made me suspicious.
     
  3. Xtremehkr thread starter macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #3
    Well, nail clippers are dangerous weapons now. If exceptions were made for women, that is where I would try next. The security check doesn't stop at my chest though, that is not where men tend to stash things. And security isn't shy about checking down there either.
     
  4. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    Leaving the "equality" argument aside (at least for the moment), is there any word whether these "pat-downs" were done by men or by women? Was a decent attempt of having a woman made available to do these searches done? Were travelers made aware of these possibilities explicitly via notice of some sort?

    The answer to these questions colors my opinion of the situation.

    Tangentally, I often do not wear boxers and know many women who do not always wear bras...could prove interesting. I try to fly only when no other arrangements can be met. I have not checked luggage on a flight for over five years.
     
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    i believe TSA rules stipulate same-gender patdown. certainly, that's consistent w/ what i've observed.
     
  6. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #6
    ahh...guess I should stop filling in my online TSA application...The felonies section looked problematic anyway...

    zim, what are you doing up at almost 3:30 in the am? Just getting home drunky?
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    ah, i wish my excuse were that good. i stay up late anyway, but ever since i got back i've been unable to establish anything approaching normal. so i've been falling asleep around 6 am. and the last week, like tonight, i've been up late working on a play.

    you'd help me immensely if you could point me to where i left my notes from when i was trying to learn cantonese. i'm trying to insert some of what i learned into the play. very frustrated right now.
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    nevermind, found it. it was in a box in the basement.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Due to the subject matter, I read that particular word all wrong. {shudders}
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    A woman's chest has upon it two major secondary sexual organs.

    Men don't really have any such major characteristics that are so personal, unless you count our primary sexual organs.

    Breasts are, pretty universally, sensual areas for a woman.

    I can't wait until a woman complying with the TSA is detained for indecent exposure.
     
  11. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #11
    The NYT article quotes at least one woman who had to be patted down by a man. Women are allowed to request a female searcher (though apparently men can't request men), but locating a female may take time, and in the case of the woman in the article, it was get searched by a man or miss her flight.
     
  12. Xtremehkr thread starter macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #12
    I don't know if they are sexual 'organs' PB, but they are sexually related. Kinda like how women like to check out a mans butt, but apart from being attractive, the butt really has no other sexual function, for a woman.

    I believe that nipples are universally sensitive. But it is still kind of missing the point. There is an established double standard that is inherently unequal to men and yet a major newspaper would not consider touching upon that because it is not what is important to society. Men pretty much have to accepted what is decreed with little thought to how they feel about the situation.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Men and women are inherently unequal.
     
  14. Xtremehkr thread starter macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #14
    how so?
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    mostly in the naughty bits, which is the subject of this thread. and then there's that whole XX/XY thing.

    though i might have chosen the word 'different' over 'unequal'.
     
  16. Xtremehkr thread starter macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #16
    I think in the case of airport security, terrorism is an equalizer. Breasts have become highly sexualized parts of the female anatomy. In other cultures though women don't see the need to even cover them, even European women feel comfortable being topless at the beach.

    Only in America are we so very sensitive it seems.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    I don't think so. Your binoculars are set on a very narrow field.
     
  18. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #18
    on the contrary. You see upper body, female nudity all the time all over the world.

    scem0
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    You wish. Still a comparative rarity, and then only in Europe (and some parts of Africa where people are much less likely to be taking regular flights...)
     
  20. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #20
    Well, I didn't mean so much nude beach, or walking through the street nude.

    I think women from most other countries in the wold would be much more willing to show their breasts for art of some kind than women in the US.

    It just isn't as big of a deal.

    scem0
     
  21. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #21
    Will anyone make the claim that in any culture they've visited, women walking around the streets without a shirt on was an accepted and normal thing?

    Now, who here has seen a man walking down the street or playing basketball with his shirt off?

    Okay, now that we have zero votes for the former question and about everyone for the latter, I think we can make some conclusions.

    A man being told to strip shirtless in a security checkpoint is nowhere near as degrading as a woman being told to because of the specific cultural implications (privately sexual) that women's breasts carry.
     
  22. Xtremehkr thread starter macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #22
    So we should not even consider searching women because they are offended and run the risk of women being used for the purpose of blowing up planes? Potentially killing hundreds or even thousands of people?
     
  23. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #23
    Who said anything about searching them? We're talking about a woman being forced to take her top off in public or be felt up by a man.
     
  24. Savage Henry macrumors 65816

    Savage Henry

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    #24
    So you wouldn't object to a full body cavity examination to see how much semtex you are packing up there every time you step on a plane? In fact, I think you should insist on having it done, and lead by example.
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #25
    Now that's a little extreme.

    It's more like having your pants dropped and you balls checked while the crowd looks on.

    You could be hiding something under that sack!
     

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