ETA does it again in Madrid

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by billyboy, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    #1
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500452.stm

    This is so bad on so many levels. A direct hit against the Spanish democratic process, a direct hit against people who have got nothing to do with anything related to ETA's grievances and a great excuse for some governments around the world to stir some Al Qaeda stories.
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #2
    it is truly terrible, the guilty and co planners should rot in hell. just watching the news though, they beleive it isnt ETA due to them not having admitted it. maybe the finger of blame points at Al Qaeda.
     
  3. macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

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    #3
    Yeah, there are certainly signs it could be Islamic extremists. Since ETA generally try to do more property damage, but Islamic terrorism is all about killing as many as possible.

    I also just heard that there were bombs were the emergency services are, but they were detonated in a controlled way. So it is looking more and more like Islamic terrorism.
     
  4. macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #4
    Bush's Terrorism Speach

    The first one he gave when he said we were headed after terrorist groups everywhere. I had hoped that ETA, FARC, and Tupac Amaru were getting the ax after Al Queda. :(
     
  5. macrumors 601

    virividox

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  6. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #6
    That's just sad. A coordinated attack like that is very al-qaeda'esque, but it doesn't make that much sense given the timing of the attack with the elections.

    Glad I don't ride the metro in DC any more...... :(

    I hope who ever is to blame for this is caught.

    D
     
  7. eav
    macrumors newbie

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    #7
    I live in Madrid, but not in the bombed areas. What I've witnessed is the flood
    of ambulances coming/going from the hospitals to the train stops.
    They are blaming ETA, but it looks more an integrist attack.
    The images are astonishing. I hope it never repeats again.

    To virividox: Feel free to come. Madrid isn't a dangerous city.

    Thanks to all for your concerns,

    E
     
  8. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    #8
    ETA has a dramatic figure of deaths in its CV, and you can be sure that ETA's usual purpose has nothing to do with doing as much property damage as possible. Their main purpose is to kill, and so they recognize in each one of their manifests.

    It is true that ETA's actions in the past years have been aimed to kill individuals, usually polititians, policemen and militars. ETA's griever killing up to this point, though, was a bomb in a mall in Barcelona on 1987, killing 21 civilians, so this is not, at all, the first time that ETA (if they are to be credited for this masacre) aims civilians.

    We cannot know the true responsible for this repulsive act, yet. There are, still, issues that make blaming ETA for it quite understandable. In the past two months, the police deactivated two bombs in a regular train, just like the ones that were bombed today, and detained the 2 ETA activists blamed for placing those bombs, and just a week ago they detained two other ETA activists carrying an insane ammount of explosives in a van towards Madrid that, if used at once, would have caused a tragedy quite bigger than today's, according to what authorities said at that time.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

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    #9
    Al Qaeda never admitted September 11 NY, AFAIK. At least I did watch Bin Laden in TV saying that he was glad for an event that, otherwise, he had nothing to do with.

    Unless they openly admit it (which I wonder if they would, in case they have done it, since, after 1987's killing, ETA issued the only message of "excuse" that I am aware of because of the dramatic violent nature of the act) we'll never be able to be sure who did it.
     
  10. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #10
    It's the one concern I have when travelling on Tube... that they'll be some religious fruit with a belt of TNT... :rolleyes:

    We've been incredibly lucky in London that nothing major has happened for awhile, and that as of yet, we've not had any suicide bombers, but I personally feel it's only a matter of time before we do... :(

    Before with the IRA and The Real IRA :rolleyes: it was car bombs... with a degree of warning, but the tide changed with the Soho bombing a few years ago... that was erieely similar to a suicide bomber style attack... :(
     
  11. macrumors 65816

    Foxer

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    #11
    That's a silly attitude. By that measure, no court of law could convict anyone who pleads "not guilty."
     
  12. macrumors 6502

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    #12
    I think I did not express myself properly (although that does not necessarily mean that mine is not, maybe, a silly attitude). Of course, if an court investigation which we consider as reliable pronounces in one way or the other, it is a very different matter. Still, I do not think anyone has been judged for September 11, although I may have missed it. In those conditions I, as an average Joe, have no means to distinguish what is manipulation and what is solid information, and thus, have not the tools to decide who I deposit my confidence on.
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

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    #13
    Personally I do think it's the ETA. On February 29th Spanish police arrested two ETA members in Madrid, guess what they found with them.... 1000 lbs of explosives.

    Maybe they haven't taken responsibility for it yet is because it got out of control and was worse than they expected. Perhaps they thought that the level of destruction would have been a lot smaller and now that it's over 180 dead they don't want that being blamed on them.

    I dunno, I could be wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #14
    How odd
    this doesn't seem to be getting much coverage in the states (on tv)
    I would think that they would pre-empt the loop on hockey violance and Kerry v. bush in order to cover something of such great magnatude.
     
  15. macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #15
    Wait
    a van containing both detonators and a tape of Qua'ranic verses has been found
    CNN and MSNBC have now deemed it news worth
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    krimson

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    #16
    NPR just announced that Al jezeera (sp) just aired a tape from Al queda that says it is claiming responsibility for the bombing and ETA had nothing to do with this one.

    edit: correction quote.
     
  17. macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #17
    Rather chicken of Al Queda going after Spain. Spain's support has been lukewarm at best. I would rather see the attacks here in the US where it is more deserved.
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #18
    I agree
    If you're gonna bomb
    at least bomb those most culpable for the infraction/pervasive ideology you hope to right or change through violence.
    Violence without proper direction is completely pointless violence
    not that violence is typically justified
    it just seems if you're gonna do it you should do it those you most hate, not those of whom you have a vehement indifference.
     
  19. macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #19
    A very sad incident. My prayers are with the family and friends involved tin this tragic incident. I heard that Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility. The NYSE has tumbled today as a result of the news, with continued threat of terror. I wonder if there is any coincidence with the date being on 3/11! :(

    http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/11/spain.blasts/index.html
     
  20. thread starter macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    #20
    Obviously I cant say for definite, but for those looking in from across the Atlantic, you must be very skeptical about Al Qaeda being involved. It would suit certain governments to have it down to them, but really look at it from Spains specific point of view. The timing is so close to an election. The history of ETA is not just a litany of individual police, army and politician assassinations, they have carried out mass civilian attacks before since 1968. Also the scale of this could be down to the fact that a couple of their less crazy "leaders" are under lock and key right now leaving some known ultra nationalists holding the reins and taking a chance to show how bad they are. It just makes an ETA job more logical.

    And the Eta responsibles probably wouldnt dare own up to it now, because the attacks were so outrageous they would risk losing support from even their most avid supporters in Pais Vasco.

    This is so OTT, I pity anyone on Spanish soil who remotely has a connection with the guilty parties. If it is ETA, there is going to be some serious breaking down of doors in Pais Vasco which wont make pretty viewing. If you didnt know, the Basque police literally dress as stormtroopers, the only force in the world who I believe deliberately dress to intimidate the people they protect. In a more subtle way the European wide anti terrorist network will kick in as well and I am sure that with their specialist experience which probably only the Israelis can equal for experience with terrorism, the authorities can get this particular episode knocked on the head and life can get back to happier times in Madrid.
     
  21. macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #21
    actually from the news that are broadcasted there already were a lot of evidence that this might be an Al Qaeda attack:

    *they found the minivan with coranic tape
    *ETA never made such large attacks and are prefering politic targets
    *the day and time of attack: 11th March, 7:30-8:00 am ...2,5 years since 9/11
    *one bomb was a suicidal attack
    *spain was pro-war with much media presence involving their prime minister

    some passages from the fax:
    "We successfully infiltrated the heart of crusader-Europe and hit one the camps of the crusader-alliance"
    "Aznar, where is America now? Who will protect you from us: Great Britain, Japan, Italy?" (Aznar is the spanish prime minister)
    "we bring the good message to the Muslims of the world that the expected attacks 'winds of black death' against America in their locking phase... to 90 per cent finished and, so God wants, near"

    (sorry translated with altavista)
    lets hope this fax isn't real...

    my hearts are with all the spanish victims and their relatives
     
  22. thread starter macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    #22
    The police arrested two ETA guys in the week with 1000lb of explosives in their truck.
    The bombs were set off by a series of mobile phone calls and bombs were made of material historically favoured by ETA. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1-1034465,00.html

    Let's just see how it plays out before getting too far into Al Qaeda territory.
     
  23. macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #23
    Too bad a unit like the one in Rainbow Six doesn't exist, or does it?
     
  24. macrumors newbie

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    #24
    i wonder who the victims were......if certain routes were targetted, ect. it just seems like a well coordinated attack, so some thought must have gone into what routes, areas, ect. to hit - among other things.

    i'm curious because in israel for instance, you have these bombings where people are blown up that seem to have no connection with the government, (people on buses, resturants, ect.) in areas where palestinian movements are so severely restricted, you gotta wonder how they can succeed in carrying out their suicide missions in the first place. then you have to wonder why - if they are going to blow themselves up - why they wouldn't target government personnel or politicians. it doesn't make sense.

    i just wish these terrorists were a little more considerate of innocent lives and target their enemies a little more precise, because events like these don't help their cause. that's assuming these terrorists aren't working for the government.
     
  25. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    #25
    I normally take the train at one of the stations that was blown and am quite staggered. Heard the explosions from my house.¡, and later witnessed the scene... Some friends of mine weren't in those trains because they had woken up 5 minutes late... what can I say? This has been horrendous...

    One thing to bear in mind is that the trains weren't on time, they arrived a bit late to Atocha station. If all the bombs would have gone off in both trains inside the station, i'm sure it would have been totally destroyed with not haundreds, but thousands dead...

    The magnitude of the attack plus the fact that one of the explosions was a suicidal attack makes it very hard to believe it was ETA... even in their worst civilian attack (21 dead in Barcelona in a supermarket) they called before to warn about it. No warn was given now...
     

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