EU agrees to new Constitution

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sayhey, Jun 18, 2004.

  1. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #1
    The summit of leaders of the EU nations has agreed on a new constitution. This is just the opening of a long fight to get it ratified by each nation. The UK looks to be the hardest sell.

    BBC
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    Looks like Blair may have pulled off a bit of a coup. Chirac may have got his comeuppance (at last!). 25 votes to play with instead of 15 changes the political landscape and balance of power quite significantly.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3820947.stm
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    it's good to see that, somewhere, countries can cooperate. well done.
     
  4. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #4
    I think you're right that the new members have changed the old alliances. However, the French and the Germans are on the side of the future. The economies of Europe will grow more and more into an integral whole. The standards set by the EU on a host of civil liberties and other protections will become the way of life for all member states. I don't see how there is really much choice for Europeans. If you want to be a "player" in the 21st Century then it will mean larger and larger economic and political structures. It makes sense to have that come in the form of structures that one can have a say in. That includes the late entry into the monetary union of the UK, Sweden, and Denmark.

    If I were in the French or German governments, I would protest and yell about the British intransigence, all the while knowing that it only strengthened Europhiles in Britain if the UK's positions are seen as winning some concessions. In fact, after a suitable period of refusal, I think putting the Presidency in the hands of Chris Patten may not be such a bad idea. I would, of course, rather have someone like Kinnock in the post, but a Tory (I'm right in remembering Patten is a Conservative Party member?) in charge of moving Britain and the rest of Europe together has its tactical advantages. It would split the Conservatives right down the middle, and they seem to be the greatest threat to the EU right now. It would also comfort many citizens of the UK, I believe, for the voice of the EU to be an English one. It looks at the moment as if this won't happen as the latest report is that Patten has withdrawn from consideration, but this might not be the best thing for the French and German position.

    If not Patten, then I would think that after his success in pulling off the Constitutional agreement Ahern's stock must be rising. He is not someone I share political views with, but I think he could be very successful. Whatever happens it will be fascinating to watch the next year to see if the Constitution will be ratified or the nationalist forces (aided and abetted by the Bush administration) will tear it apart.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    The French and Germans on the side of the future? I don't think so. Unless you see the future as some kind of corporatist heaven. The Eurozone is no advertisement for the Euro: their economies are all in the doldrums even though the three main members have all excused themselves from meeting the criteria they themselves bullied everyone else into conforming with.

    Having just heard Kinnock wittering on the radio for 5 minutes this morning, I am reminded what a complete twat he really is. Talks ENDLESS drivel and says absolutely NOTHING. The real challenge is staying awake till he gets to the end of a sentence.
     
  6. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #6
    It shows that Saddam thought he was an immediate threat to the US.[​IMG]
    I doubt Puttin would lie for Bush.

    BTW I posted this news story in I think the Iraq thread.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Excuse me, but aren't you in the wrong thread??? :confused:
     
  8. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #8
    Apparently because what I replied to isn't here :confused:
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    Keep taking the tablets... :D :rolleyes:
     
  10. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #10
    Hey, skunk, I dislike Chirac as much as you do. I think Schröder is busy trying to do to German Social Democrats what Blair did to Labour politics. In other words, I don't like either of them terribly much. I'm all for resisting much of their policies as they impact ordinary French and German citizens.

    What I'm not against is carving out a future in which European integration is achieved through peaceful means and on the basis of standards that enable all Europeans to have basic rights and protections. That looks to me as a pretty good future, with a lot of bumps and struggling along the way. I also see tremendous resistance in the form of nationalist politics to this integration from many countries, including from your own Tories and folks like the UKIP. So when I see Blair's politics, in essence, caving into the rhetoric of Howard and others with his "red lines" and intransigence on the Constitution - yeah, it looks to me as if objectively the French and Germans are more in the camp of the future than the Labour leadership. I wish that were not so as Labour's history is certainly something I'm much more comfortable with than Chirac's arrogance. I would hope that the left in Labour would aggressively push its own vision of a future Britain, tied to Europe. What it seems like from over here is nothing more than attempts to mollify the right, while doing little to win folks to a progressive agenda. Heck, the Liberal-Democrats have a better position!

    My own interest in this is one of hope for a multipolaral world in which there exists alternatives to US economic and political domination from a democratic and progressive tradition. It seems to me you folks in the EU best represent that hope and it drives me nuts when you all have similar nationalist problems as we do here, which could destroy that alternative. So kindly forgive the rantings of an American Trade Unionist who would love to have a Labour Party of his own, instead of the disorganized jumble of Democratic politics. ;)


    LOL, our standards are not as high as yours. Heck, not that long ago (ok, it was over 15 years ago - I'm getting old) one well known US politician, Sen. Joe Biden, was caught plagiarizing Kinnock's speeches and we thought they were pretty good until we found out they weren't his own.
     

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