EU constitution fight

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sayhey, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #1
    BBC

    Is it just a coincidence that the two countries that have scuttled the latest round of negotiations on a new EU constitution are the same two that have the most to gain from their support of US efforts in Iraq? Perhaps it is my paranoia, but I would not be surprised if the Bush administration gave assurances of support if Poland and Spain stood firm in their insistence of antidemocratic voting methods.
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    Re: EU constitution fight

    beyond annoying germany and france, what would bush have to gain?
     
  3. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #3
    Re: Re: EU constitution fight

    The neoconservative foreign policy is based on the need to stop any challenges to US military and economic dominance. I would put the integration and unity of military and foreign policies that the new EU constitution potentially represented as at the top of that list. It was behind all of Rumsfeld's fuming about an independent (from NATO) EU military center.

    If I look in the future for places in the world that could challenge US dominance, then the EU and China are the most likely suspects. I can't believe that the NATO meetings that Bush called were the only methods he chose to use to stop the growing integration of Europe.
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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  5. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #5
    This has been an ongoing battle for about a year now and in my mind is more about economics than about any transatlantic rift. Spain, Portugal, Greece and until recently, Ireland have seen phenomenal amounts of EU money come into their countries and it has transformed them. The ten new members will suck a lot of money from the EU budget and Spain is not happy with the prospect of losing billions of euros in investment.

    Of the ten new invitees to the EU, Poland makes up half of the total new population. It is heavily dependent upon agriculture and will probably be a big loser economically for the first few years until the EU subsidies kick in and investment shows results. Germany is the major reason that Poland is doing so well, it has invested more than any other country in Poland and the Poles aren't overly comfortable with this German dominance of their economic well-being.

    The voting proposal is rather tricky but is designed to give those that give the most, the most power as well as keep the number of delegates at a reasonable number. It's not ideal and may never see the light of day but Germany and France are determined to have it their way.

    There's no way that the US would be able to support Poland the way the EU will, Poland's belligerance is I'm sure, highly satisfying to gw & co. but Poland has no choice. It's the EU or back to being a bunch of peasant farmers or worse, ending up like the Ukraine.

    I'm sure there will be a compromise in the end but there is little that gw can do for either Spain or Poland. In the end they will have to survive on their own merits. The EU of course, needs them to be successful but not at the expense of the wealthier EU taxpayers.

    The EU is the most phenomenal pan-continental political and economic power shift the world has ever seen. It's only natural that there will be birthing pains and its only natural that the US wants to make them as unenjoyable as possible. The US will have no lasting effect on the end result though.
     
  6. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #6

    Ugg,

    sorry for the time between responding. I didn't see your post until just now.

    I'm, as I said in my original post, probably reacting out of my own paranoia. I'm sure you're right about both Poland and Spain having their basic interests in the functioning of the EU. I'm looking for the hand of Wolfowitz and company in places it might not be the most dominant factor even if it plays a role. That is from my very real, and not paranoid, belief that the neoconservative policies are a danger for the world.

    I am fascinated by the fight over the voting in the new constitution. The Nice accord gives Spain and Poland votes far above the proportion their populations merit. The new proposal for a double majority seems to me to be the most democratic procedure possible while taking into account state's interests.

    What gets my attention in Spain and Poland's actions is the short sightedness of the opposition. Nice will only rule until 2009 and then a new procedure must be implemented. I can understand trying to use this to get the best deal for their countries, but it seems like they are not willing to deal at all. That seems like obstructionism and I look for the source.

    Is it Euroskeptics in both countries? I don't think so. If it was Britain, Sweden, or Denmark, that would make sense. However, Poland just voted to enter and has a tremendous stake, as you rightly pointed out, in this working. Spain, likewise, has an vested interest in the EU working and its population is dependent on those ties. Who are they playing to? That is why my paranoia makes me wonder what role behind the scenes the neocons are playing.
     

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