EU with a new constitution?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by SlyHunter, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #1
    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/frankjgaffneyjr/fg20040421.shtml
     
  2. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #2
    I like that the authors of this article like to use metaphors like strangling babies in cribs. Nice.

    The authors also seem not to understand EU voting structure and other technicalities. But overall, imagine, Europeans wanting a structure that will promote their interests in international trade and law. Unbelievable.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    Note the 'scorn from the press' they complain about right before they call Belgium and Luxumburg the 'poodles' of France and Germany. Nice touch of hipocrisy.
     
  4. amnesiac1984 macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    and how dare they put Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher in the same sentence. She was an evil right wing crone.

    I don't know where this article came from, but probably out of somebody's backside.

    This exactly the kind of bull**** that makes us angry at the states, and has done for many years.

    The American GPS system is controlled entirely by the US military, but civilian and commercial shipping as well as car nav systems rely on it. Can we rely on the US military to keep it on? What happens if there is some sort of threat, will they just turn it off, leaving hundreds of ships and yachts left to navigate blindly into the rocks? It also is not nearly accurate enough for our needs as the US military scrambles the signal. We need Galileo because it will be a civilian system for civilians with their interests at heart. I've read many articles on Galileo in both international yachting magazines and New Scientist, none of them mentioned that it will interfere with GPS. Anyway, galileo will be far more accurate so everybody should switch to it anyway. But Americans won't because they're so ****ing "Patriotic", jeez when will you guys learn that we all live on the same ****ing planet!

    edit: this is not a sweeping attack at Americans, jsut at a certain type of American. I think you know what I mean.
     
  5. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #5
    haha thanks SlyHunter that article was perhaps the most funny thing i read today...

    just... can't... stop.... grinning.... :D
     
  6. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #6
    Whoever wrote that is so clueless about the realities in Europe today. If you really believe this Slyhunter, you are being grossly misled. Why don't you start reading some of the European press to see what they have to say about it all. I think you would be astounded by what is really happening there, that is if you are interested in the reality of the situation instead of some deluded American rightwinger's interpretation of reality
     
  7. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #7
    I don't read SlyHunter's posts anymore, but I can tell by the discussion it is more of the same "quality." I'm very interested in Blair's turnabout on a referendum and what it will mean for the new constitution. Is this his way of trying to scuttle the constitution without actually paying the price with the rest of Europe for doing so? Or is this just a way to divorce the fate of the constitution from his own?

    I understand there are many who are skeptical about the supposed "loss of control" to Brussels, but from way over her on the left coast of North America it seems that much of what is being proposed is very good. I'd love to hear from our European members (or anyone with some knowledge on the subject) what they are thinking.
     
  8. amnesiac1984 macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    I'm not sure what I think. I'v ebeen spending too much time on here complaining about American politics and I kind of don't know what to think. I'm scared that I'll here some biased viewpoint from the media and go with that, there needs to be some decent discussion about it on here, cos when we have a referendum It will be the first thing I vote on (I'm 19)
     
  9. whocares macrumors 65816

    whocares

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    #9
    -SlyHunter

    Why don't you restrict your political posts towards something you may actually understand: US politics.
     
  10. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #10
    shouldn't you consider this a good thing
    Republicans and others right of center have long been complaining about judicial activism and the problems of an independent judiciary
    this would seem to fix the problem
    subservient american courts which would pander to the "tyranny of the masses" albeit un US american masses should be seen as a positive by republicans. right?

    slyhunter
    I appreciate your posts
    if nothing else they have helped me to better define my opinions
    I don't typically agree with them and some times the number is anoying
    but I'm sure most people feel the same way about me
     
  11. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #11
    i think positive about the development of a constitution for the EU, but it is far from being final (at the moment there is no EU constitution as far as i understand the word "constitution" which means "Verfassung" in German, the last conference about the further development failed...) i think this will take a lot more years (i guess at least 5 , but 10 or more would be more realistic)

    i think the biggest problems are with the individual constitutions of the different countries

    example: the austrian constitution has the point of neutrality which means in the case of a war austria cannot join an other group of nations to fight with (execption: self defence of country) ...there is still a big discussion in the media press etc. if this is still true after austria joined the EU and if austria should join a Eu Army (polls showed that about 60 are against that)
     
  12. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #12
    My understanding is that there is likely to be an agreement on the EU constitution in the next month or two. The change of the government in Spain and the change in position of the Polish government removed the obstacles to the agreement on the draft. That does not mean there won't be any changes in the present draft - there almost certainly will, particularly on the 55-55 double majority proposal from Germany and some moves to mollify Tony Blair's "red lines." The current President, Ireland's Bertie Ahern, has pledge to push for the constitutional agreement before the end of his term on June 30th. All of this supposes that, with the change of Prime Minister in Poland on May 2nd, there will not be a new government that refuses to accept a compromise.

    takao, you raise an important point about Austria's constitution and the proposed creation of a EU defense force. Do you think this would stop Austria from adopting the constitution? Also do you think Austria will follow Blair's lead and put it up for a referendum vote?

    edit: for those who don't know what this is all about check out the following site:

    Draft EU Constitution and History
     
  13. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #13
    i doubt the actual austrian government would try to stop a Eu defense force ..they are in favour for a Eu Army it instead of joining the nato but they are split up too... but they are rather neutral in their opinion towards the Eu
    if they loose the next election and the socials are back in power it won't change because the socials are _absolutly_ pro-EU...so i doubt it make a difference at all

    a United EU - Army would be a real advantage for all countries (IMHO) in the EU... at the moment every country has to buy it's own tanks,air defense fighters,mountain infantry etc.etc.
    with a United Army resources can be shared : airports, training grounds,training staff,and even military equipment like radar facilites,airplanes,ships... etc.
    i absolutley support this idea
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    I especially love this bit: like the way WE supported YOU at Waterloo and Trafalgar. Or were they thinking of WWI and WWII? :rolleyes:
    Where DO they find these people? :eek:
     
  15. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    Austrian Navy? Where?
     
  16. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    It's been fun reading through this one. Mr. Gaffney, the author of this silly article, is not a very credible authority -- as you may suspect. He is the President of The Center for Security Policy -- an organization that has a motto straight out of the 50's: Promoting Peace Through Strength.

    Here is the story on their web page today:
    Bin Laden tape shows al Qaeda strategy depending on 'peace' movements

    Bin Laden makes protesters part of his strategy

    Borrowing a page from North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, Osama bin Laden is making the US and European "peace" movement an instrument of his strategy . . .​

    These guys are in a time warp. They think it is still the Vietnam war. And this time we are going to win, so long as we shut up those damn protesters!
     
  17. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #17
    very funny, cheap shot, my friend. I think we all know Austria is a landlocked country. He was talking about the combination of European forces, including naval forces, that could save money for individual countries. No mention of an Austrian Navy.

    What do you think about a EU force? I know that Rumsfeld was in Europe not too long ago, lecturing everyone about how this was a threat to NATO. Personally, I think it is a great idea for missions like Bosnia or peacekeeping missions outside of Europe.

    Do you think the proposed constitution is a good thing? Do you the UK should have a referendum on it?
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #18
    Must...stop...making...Austrian...Navy...jokes! :p


    If ever anyone could agree on what to DO with such a force, it could be useful. But the line of command would probably be very tortuous, so I think peacekeeping would be its only useful function.

    Yes, if only to flush the terms out into the open: nobody here has a clue what it's about, including me, to be honest. I'm obviously going to have to wade my way through it sooner or later. :(
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #19
    I don't envy you reading the draft constitution. It is hardly inspiring reading, but the integration of Europe seems to me to be a very important development for not only Europe but the world. When you do read it post what you think, I'd like to read what you have to say.
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #20
    I have just read it. I am appalled. The whole thing seems to be a monumental, wasteful fudge. A President elected by the heads of state or government? Why do we need some superannuated old buffoon whom all states from Lithuania to Malta will be happy with? Who is he or she going to represent, and why? Another wreath for the Unknown Soldier?
    The whole proposed voting system looks a complete shambles, and as for anything useful coming out of an agreed "Foreign Policy": don't make me laugh!
    I shall be voting NO. :( :mad:
     
  21. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #21
    on the Danube .... serisouly... 3-4 fast patrol boats for controlling transport/passengerships at the borders in cooperation with the multiple police boats...

    every boat eqipped with a few 2-3 cannons with calibers ranging from 20 to 40 mm and each with a couple of heavy machine guns

    no aircraft carriers but still a navy ;)

    austria would supply other things like world class mountain infantry and first class helicopter pilots..and i guess a lot of equipment which is usefull ....
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    World-class leather trousers? :rolleyes:

    PS I'm only having fun. Some of my best friends are Austrian... :)
     

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