Even though I'm a loser please reward me

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LethalWolfe, Aug 8, 2006.

  1. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #1
    "The idea that protecting kids from rejection is crucial to safeguarding their self-esteem has gained momentum in recent years." AKA Even though I'm a loser please reward me.

    Great, we're helping create another generation of lazy, thin skinned pansies that will feel entitled to everything merely because they breathe.

    It's so awesome that pre-10 kids will get rewarded equally no matter how much they suck but once they turn 10 and they stop getting medals and ribbons left and right I wonder how good they are going to feel about themselves?

    Maybe the reason the teen suicide rate is up is because some of these kids are so protected and so coddled that when something negative eventually happens to them they don't know how to deal w/it and *that's* why they overreact and kill themselves? Even think that could be the problem, geniuses?

    Argh, crap like this just really irritates the hell outta me.


    Lethal
     
  2. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #2
    Over protection is definitely bad, as is underprotection. I think protecting kids from being made fun of for the wrong reasons is good - "that kid is Asian, let's steal his lunch money!". But there's so much grey area. Should kids be protected from being made fun of for being overweight? I honestly don't have an answer to that. On one hand, obesity is a dangerous disease that needs to be eliminated when possible. If being made fun of will encourage a kid to diet or to exercise to get rid of his/her obesity, then I say make fun of them! But then again, being made fun of can be pretty damaging psychologically. It drives girls to anorexia every day. What are we sacrificing by giving bullies the green light?

    It's all about moderation. To a certain degree 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. If I were to have a kid, I'd want him/her to be made fun of. To toughen his/her hide, to develop his/her character, etc. But if a group of kids didn't let up about my kids weight I'd have a talk with the parents of the bullies. I don't want my kid to grow up thinking they'll be miserable unless they conform to society's standards.

    e
     
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    I always thought that the U.S.A. rewarded underachievers. If they can't do the job, you promote them until they're a boss.

    We need to think about the testing so that the education methodology actually fits and everyone achieves properly. It wouldn't be propping up the losers, it would be fixing the system.

    I remember seeing a Tang Soo Do black belt test for 10 or so students. One girl in particular knew nearly nothing, was incredibly sloppy, and was ready to cry. I don't understand why she was pushed to take the exam, but she wasn't awarded her black belt that day. Within the next two weeks, the parents talked to the master and she was awarded a black belt. She's probably since grown up to become a corporate executive. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #4
    The article makes a good point that kids are being pushed to perform at younger and younger ages. A six year old should be playing in the park with his friends, not out on a soccer field being herded around by his overly competitive and overly protective parents. By the age of 10, competition should be in place and kids should be rewarded for their skills and efforts, not simply for doing something.

    Bullying is a big problem and kids are only acting out what they see their parents doing. If it's important that the parents conform through sports or whatever, then the kids are going to crucify their agemates that don't conform to their parents' ideals.

    There needs to be a happy medium and most importantly it needs to be age related. Protection from overly competitive parents is probably the most important part though. There are too many idiots out there raising kids.
     
  5. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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    #5
    I couldn't agree more. I think this is the major reason younger people have such a sense of entitlement. This is a huge problem in both offices I run. Those in their 20s and early 30s complain that they don't make nearly the money that the older reps do. All earn salaries within $10,000 of each other plus commission. When told that the older workers don't run out to text messages friends 5 times a day, spend time surfing the web, don't approach their job as if they worked on an assembly line and punch a clock, they look at you like you're from Mars.

    This quote was particularly appropriate,

     
  6. LethalWolfe thread starter macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #6
    I don't think the problem is w/the kids but w/the parents (and I think you agree considering how much negativity towards parents is in your post). The baby boomers, the "me-generation", shouting "my kid deserves a medal", "my kid deserves an A", "my kid deserves to be a starting player" no matter how well, or poor, their child performs. And it just snowballs from there. Pretty soon being an @sshole parent is the name of the game to get your kid pushed ahead even if your kid is not deserving. Moms hire hitmen to kill their daughters competition (no, I'm not kidding), dads beat other dads to death at their kid's games (again, not kidding), and people wonder why kids are messed up?

    I, like many of my friends growing up, started playing organized sports around 6 or 7 years old. Of course this was 20yrs ago (crap that makes me feel old) when youth sports was still played, ya know, for the fun it. Yeah, winning was awesome and losing sucked, but no one ever got violent over it.


    Lethal
     
  7. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #7
    Yes this is so very true.

    In the USA, we seem to be a McDonald's society...

    No one seems to want to work for things. Just like fast food, they want it quick and easy and to heck with the quality.

    All good things in life come at a price. It takes effort to accomplish worthwhile goals.
     
  8. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #8
    I occasionally hear and read about schools here in the UK that are banning school sports days and competitive sports in P.E lessons, because they don't want to have their pupils winning and losing!

    Why not eradicate failure in schools completely an get rid of exams aswell?
     
  9. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #9
    This is such utter nonsense - I'm ranking it up there with the proposals to do away with red pens for marking because it's a s c a r y color and calling failure "deferred success".

    Like Lethal, I started the after-school sports stuff around the same time (early 80s) - T-ball/baseball mainly. While we had league rules about letting every kid on the team play in each game and everyone got some sort of memento at the close of the season, there were winners and losers, and the winners' mementos were generally larger and shinier. No one was bitter or unfair about any of it either, parents included as they made up the coaches' and referees' pool. Case in point - I was called out on strikes once by my own father. There was no crying about it either; a strike is a strike is a strike.

    I think a big part of the problem is that schools have stopped being schools. That is to say, they're no longer about actual learning, critical thinking, character building, etc, but more about training to get a job and being politically correct. I've got my own thoughts on what is contributing to these overall societal downturns, but I don't think I can post them here and be hated anymore than I already am. ;)
     
  10. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #10

    I have to agree with you (although I'm worried about what you think are the root causes). We don't teach kids, we train employees. Or, we treat kids as dangerous, pyschotic adults.
     
  11. dornoforpyros macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

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    #12
    ahh yes, more of that great everyone's a winner attitude. Breeding another generation of suburban wasp with no opinions or ideas of their own.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Wow- a post I can actually agree with (unless your theories on root causes are reprehensible, which I'm sure they are :) ). In some ways yes, kids are coddled and undisciplined.

    I do think though that bullying is crap, and shouldn't be tolerated at all by any school, unless the school allows the kid getting bullied to beat the crap out of the bully with no penalty.
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    meanwhile, in utah...

     
  14. LethalWolfe thread starter macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #15
    Personally, I wouldn't have walked him. Strategy like that shouldn't come into play until the kids are much older. Fun and sportsmanship should be first priority for that age group, not winning.

    The last part of the article surprised me and got me a little choked up.

    Lethal
     
  15. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #16
    Personally I think the idea of eliminating your best opponent is a pretty cowardly strategy whether it's a matter of 9 year olds or overpaid, steroid enhanced, so called pros. But then are sports really about being sportsmanlike or simply winning the game at any cost.
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    i like to think that, had i been in that position, i would have taken the high road and pitched to their hitter. that way, if my team wins, we'll know we really did beat them with the best they had to offer.

    as it stands, they're "champions" only because the other team had cancer kid.
     
  17. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #18
    Lethal, I don't understand your problem with the article. There's nothing wrong with competition at some level, but if the goal is to get widespread participation what is wrong with giving recognition to everyone for doing so? Somethings that have been accepted as part of life by unthinking adults are now being questioned. I think that is good. I don't think it is a positive thing to have kids decide who is on sports teams (and someone being left to last or left out) when adults can decide and spare the kids the feelings of rejection and shame. I think bullying is not an acceptable part of growing up - either by allowing bullies to learn how they can succeed through intimidation or by having some kids as perpetual targets because of their differences. I also think invitations to parties and valentines should be to everyone in a class if it is done within the class. Why highlight the fact that Johnny or Jane aren't as well liked by some for all the class to see? What could possibly be wrong with trying to change any of that?

    It seems to me, that you're reacting to one aspect of the article on competition (hence the "loser" in the thread title.) Learning how to compete is a vital skill in sports and in other areas of life, but competition is not just about winning. Competition should include things like sportsmanship, honesty, respect for others, as well as learning how to give your all within the rules. If, at times, folks forget to teach through rewarding the excellence of skills, then I would agree that they make a mistake. But to me the much larger problem is that we have lost, in our drive to be the best at any cost, any sort of balance in life.
     
  18. LethalWolfe thread starter macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #19
    I have no problem w/rules at that age saying every kid has to play and not having cuts (all you have to do is sign up to make the teams). And if everyone gets a "participation" ribbon that's cool too. But give the kids that came in 1st a ribbon for coming in first. I don't agree w/not rewarding success and sending the message of, "Hey, don't even bother to try. You'll be rewarded no matter what." Why aim for the lowest common denominator? Why pull everyone down to the level of the worst student instead of trying to push everyone up to the level of the best student?

    I don't agree w/bullying, and I think everything w/in reason should be done to keep it in check, but it's going to happen anyway. Why not teach your child how to deal w/it instead of trying to avoid the inevitable?

    It's like social vaccination. Yeah, getting the flew shot can suck 'cause you might feel blah for a day or two, but it sucks a lot worse to get the flu.

    Growing up my elementary school didn't have a "everyone must get a Valentine" rule, but I'm pretty sure I always gave everyone at least one because my parents taught me that that was the nice thing to do (as much as I can remember the rest of my classmates were the same way). Why are parents teaching this to their children?

    I think part of my agitation about this is the "need" for schools to enforce rules on the children like it's the children that are doing something wrong. It's not the kid's fault it's the parents fault, IMO. The bad parents see problems in their kid's lives and think the child is to blame (or the school, or the team, or basically anyone but them) so they put more rules on the children. When, in fact, the child is fine, and it's the parent that is creating the bad situation.

    You mean like when I said that sports at that age should be about having fun and good sportsmanship not about winning?

    Just for perspective's sake this is coming from someone who was smaller than his peers, had a speech impediment, and was always one of the last to get picked for teams in gym class (one time I faked being sick for a week 'cause I was so tired of getting picked on). I was an average student and for all my years in soccer (11yrs playing both spring and fall seasons) I have 2 or 3 trophies. But I loved those trophies 'cause my teams and I had to bust our butts to get them. I have some "participation" ribbons somewhere, but I never put those out 'cause there was nothing special about them.

    All of the lessons I learned growing up became invaluable to me later in life. They made me determined, patient, and hardworking. Yes I have emotional scars from the teasing and such, but I also have physical scars from falling off my bike and playing football. There's nothing wrong w/having a few of each, IMO.


    Lethal
     
  19. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #20
    Heh, if I knew I wouldn't get flamed from here to Thanksgiving I'd say it openly, but most people just have a knee-jerk reaction and don't listen to what I have to say that backs it up. ;)
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Corvus- people will listen if you can back up what you say. We're not a bunch of a**holes (well, I can be sometimes. :) ). BUT- you DO have to back it up. However, if you present a bunch of neocon/Limbaugh BS, we WILL call you on it. ;)
     
  21. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #22

    So his cance wish was to met President Bush? Wow.. if i could have anything in the world it would NOT be to met Mr. Bush

    But the Coach coached the game for the win, that how people get to bat first, or to play the spot on they field they want, because there good. What the Coach did was a little cruel but there playing a sport were the idea is to win. Also the cancer kid wanted to play right? to be treated as an equal? well that what the coach would have done to ANY PLAYER, so the coach gave him the respect of playing a real game of baseball, and not letting the other team win. I don't think the Coach was being nice, but it don't think people should be upset because the kid who was bad had cancer, the coach played the game based on skill not who was sick or healthy. Its a bit of the top for a 9-10 year old league, but its not that big of a deal, and now the kid wants to get better so he can win.

    But if my kids was that weak form cancer treatment(need to take shots to be able to survive a hit from a baseball), i doubt he would be playing.
     
  22. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #23

    All teams have bad players, if the kid did not want to play on par with the others, he should not be in the league
     
  23. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #24
    Lethal, thanks for the clarification of your views. With reading your response, I don't think we disagree on this very much. Thanks again.
     
  24. seenew macrumors 68000

    seenew

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    #25
    Actually I believe it's the more liberal nations that are so fond of handouts to the unemployed, regardless of the circumstances.
     

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