Executive Orders and the Power of Martial Law

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by FFTT, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #1
    I think it is vitally important for all of us to understand what has been written into law and the potential for abuse these laws provide.

    Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed.
    At the stroke of a pen.

    Without Congressional approval, the President now has the power to transfer whole populations to any part of the country, the power to suspend the Press and to force a national registration of all persons. The President, in essence, has dictatorial powers never provided to him under the Constitution. The President has the power to suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in a real or perceived emergency. Unlike Lincoln and Roosevelt, these powers are not derived from a wartime need, but from any crisis, domestic or foreign, hostile or economic. Roosevelt created extraordinary measures during the Great Depression, but any President faced with a similar, or lesser, economic crisis now has extraordinary powers to assume dictatorial status.

    more
    http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon5.html
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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  3. Blackheart macrumors 6502a

    Blackheart

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    #3
    There's potential for abuse of any law. Why not go nation-hate somewhere else?
     
  4. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #4
    Huh?
     
  5. Blackheart macrumors 6502a

    Blackheart

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    #5
    My point being, that it is possible for anyone to pick out flaws in a nation. Different countries run themselves differently by having different laws to regulate them. Who am I to judge another country if it works fine for them? The proof is in the pudding.

    As it relates to the OP, there are plenty of laws that could very well be taken advantage of. It is the trust and integrity that is put into a nation, that allows it to survive. For instance, police are given a great amount of freedom in their jobs as they are in the dangerous occupation of ferreting out crime. The vast majority of police, however, are not corrupt.
     
  6. Queso macrumors G4

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    #6
    Shame more Americans don't feel this way. You would lift the ridiculous Cuban trade embargo and let the Iranians get on with it. Right?
     
  7. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #7
    So you think I'm anti-American because I'm concerned about the future?

    I'm anti-American because I do not trust this administration as far as I can spit?

    The same administration who has abused the public trust to extremes never
    seen before.

    Perhaps your wool is due for a good shearing?

    Maybe we should just amend the constitution to read

    We The Sheeple
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    If you're going to rely on trust and integrity, why bother with the checks and balances? Might as well stick with King George. Come to think of it, you might as well have stuck with King George III in the first place. He was at least as trustworthy as the present incumbent, and probably had more integrity, loopy as he was.
     
  9. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #9
    I'm quite aware that this is not breaking news.

    Even so, the circumstances we are facing now give me great concern.

    This President has shielded himself from justified scrutiny and criminal prosecution declaring " WAR POWERS "

    He has the power to use any "perceived threat" as justification for
    undermining the protections afforded us under the U.S. Constitution
    and The Bill Of Rights.

    He has stacked the decks in Congress preventing impeachment and oversight.

    And if you were paying attention, he has just declared himself above the law blocking the Justice Department's investigation of ILLEGAL surveillance
    on American citizens.

    What more will he do to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison?
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    You really need to educate those who put him and his cronies in power, and allowed them to stay there: the US electorate. At the risk of invoking Godwin, even Hitler was elected once.
     
  11. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #11
    So true, Bush with his signing statements is making up his own law as he goes and our Republican Congress hasnt even looked at him.
     
  12. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #12
    I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the NRA supporting Republicans
    if they were aware that under Martial Law, the government has the right
    to force them to surrender their weapons.
     
  13. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    FFTT's concern is nothing earth-shatteringly new. Bush has been violating the Constitution -- and getting away with it by the silent assent of Congress -- for quite awhile now. FFTT is, however, correct in pointing out that Bush's power grab, his intentional dismantling of the separation of powers, has been growing more and more dangerous.

    Does recognizing that fact make one a "nation-hater"? Of course not. More a patriot, if you ask me.

    According to wikipedia, the ability of the president to issue executive orders is not specified in the Constitution. Moreover, within the last century it has been limited by the courts, which state that the president cannot use such power to create laws, only to enforce existing laws. For example, if the Patriot Act gave him that broad discretion, Bush could theoretically create internment camps for all Arabs in this country. But if the Patriot Act had not been passed, he couldn't do it.

    Obviously, this president not only interprets laws as broadly as he can, he's even creating exceptions to laws when he feels he should have them (i.e., signing statements). That certainly does put him on the brink of dictatorial power. And nobody but a fool is happy to give him that power and "trust him to do the right thing".

    Let me ask the folks here: am I the only one who's wondered what would happen if Bush went a little further, and tried to mobilize the Army against dissenters, or tried to federalize the National Guard for the same reason? What would happen if he tried to suspend an election?

    Let's leave Congress out of this. You know and I know that even if Congress specifically forbade him from doing this, he'd probably do it anyway, citing his "wartime powers" and "duty to protect the nation".

    Would the Pentagon, the state Guards and various elected officials just meekly go along with this? Or would we end up with some kind of true constitutional crisis, with the potential for a civil war if people had to start choosing up sides?

    It's not that far beyond the realm of possibility.
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    You obviously don't live in Chicago. :)
     
  15. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #15
    I can't help but wonder how far this administration will go to stay in power.

    They have undermined accurate and verifiable elections.

    They have started wars based on lies, deception and greed.

    They have hidden behind " Classified" information and " National Security "
    to shield themselves from criminal prosecution.
    In effect holding themselves above the law.

    So how far will they go to manipulate the upcoming Congressional elections?

    How far will they go when they face impeachment and criminal prosecution?
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Depends on how much of a fight you put up, I guess.
     
  17. Queso macrumors G4

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    #17
    At best you'd get a Boris Yeltsin figure pulling everyone together in one mass protest, at worst it would mean the USA falling apart. I can't see how the military would support the President on that one, but if they did? Mass public protests in the Blue states, Governors and Mayors being arrested for refusing to comply with the Federal Government, and rioting on a grand scale.
     
  18. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #18
    It may or may not be well founded, but I can understand a growing fear
    that this administration might attempt another "created event " just in time
    to prevent a change in power.
     

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