feedback to Apple: SLOW image previews in Finder

Discussion in 'Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) Discussion' started by tkermit, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. tkermit macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #1
    Hi,

    I just submitted feedback to Apple and since I am confident that they wait until there have been many people complaining about the same issue before they actually try to adress it, I would invite anyone on this board who feels the same about this to submit his/her own feedback to Apple... :)
    btw: http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
    I think that's the only way to get somewhere. I posted what I wrote so you see what I am specifically complaining about. :rolleyes:

    "Hi,

    this is really one of my MAJOR gripes with Mac OS X and I've heard from lots of other people that I am absolutely not alone. Windows is actually way ahead of Mac OS X in this regard.
    It has to be possible for previews of images to be quickly created and shown. While it takes merely seconds on Windows it takes MUCH longer on Mac OS X .

    Additionally, Mac OS X doesn't even bother to create previews of image files in the current folder that are not shown, so it only starts 'building' them when you scroll to the files at which point you'll have to wait AGAIN.

    What I have noticed is that the preview speed is acceptably slow when you still have RAM shown as 'free' in the 'Activity Monitor'. Once there's none left (after you have looked at lots of previews), it can take up to a MINUTE before Mac OS X continues showing previews of the next pictures. This is true, even when you have closed the current folder and you have opened an entirely different one, trying to get previews of other pictures.

    I REALLY hope this issue can be adressed in Tiger, I feel it should be a top priority, since it is a requirement for a modern multimedia OS to quickly browse through image folders and show a lot of previews.

    Thank you very much for listening to my criticism / suggestions.

    Yours sincerely,"

    That's it. Good idea ? Bad idea ? What do you think? :eek:
     
  2. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    I don't see the slowness that you describe. Have you run your cron scripts? Have you recently repaired permissions? Have you recently booted into single-user mode and run fsck?
     
  3. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #3
    done all of that... I've also reformatted like 3 times in the 6 months that I've had my iBook G4 (640mb RAM).

    The slowness turns up when I look at lots of pictures from my camera (1600x1200 jpegs). As I said it's acceptably slow as long as the 'activity monitor' shows a certain amount of RAM as free, but after that Mac OS X actually pauses before it later proceeds to (slowly) show more previews.

    You must certainly be annoyed about my second point (that only the previews of files that are shown on the screen are created (not of others in the current folder)), no ?
     
  4. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #4
    It really depends on how large the files are.
    Small images are instant, large 1024+ are pretty slow.
    XP uses a hidden thumbnail file in each folder that has pics, so XP can seem faster... photoshop has got a fast browser that doesn't cache though, for example.
     
  5. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #5
    I know - that's actually one way to handle the situation (Mac OS X creates tons of dsstore files anyway...) ...

    BUT, XP is actually faster with new picture folders where it has to create the thumbnail database file for the first time...

    Does it not annoy the crap out of you ? (so to say :rolleyes: )
     
  6. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #6
    Yeah, exactly. I made a folder of scanned images of tax docs etc. In this case the icon-sized thumbnails are largely useless. But the folder (24 TIFF images, 420 MB) takes about a minute for previews of all images to show up. :( In such a case I'd almost rather not get previews.
     
  7. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #7
    It can be anoying, which is why I just have the icons generated using pic2icon, which is the way things should have been done in the first place...
    Oh well, pic2icon can do some nice effects like making a soft shadow etc. Really nice at 128x128. I actually just had it parse my entire HD and added icons to everything!
     
  8. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #8
    right...that's a workaround, not really a solution, is it ? I'm sure it works, but most of the time I REALLY need previews of images is when I see them for the first time...I don't want to have to use that program (pic2icon) everytime I get some new image files. You know, it's situations like a friend bringing a CD with him and you just want to have a look at the pictures on it (without importing it into iPhoto).

    Windows XP: in a matter of seconds you're ready to go

    OS X: prepare yourself to wait (either way: stare at the finder window or let pic2icon do it's magic)

    hm...frustrating...I'd really love it if Tiger had Windows XP's preview mode...

    btw: Why doesn't Mac OS X show image previews in open/save dialogues ??? wtf...
     
  9. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #9
    Oh, they do. Just not Cocoa applications! It sucks and I filed a bug to the feedback page on apple.com. Hopefully they will fix it. And, I also complained about the slow previews. It is very possible that the finder is not processing the EXIF data on most pics and just scanning the whole thing and not adding it later. Who knows...

    I've said it many times, but the finder it sometimes worse than piece of %^*&&^&...

    The thing is, I believe apple is really obsessed with adding big features (expose, rendezvous, spotlight, core video) and implementing them extremely well, while ignoring the little things that build up over time. This may be why Tiger is taking its time... hopefully.
     
  10. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #10
    Thanks, I did not know that.

    great, I really hope Tiger will have a more advanced way of handling images/image previews in the finder.

    talk to me - it's really not up to the general standard that is obviously displayed in the rest of Mac OS X.

    WOW - exactly what I've been thinking. They should fix what's wrong with it and get essential features in there BEFORE they start adding totally new ones...(albeit great, innovative ones) I guess this strategy is mainly a marketing thing, oh well. Have you read John Siracusa's Mac OS X 10.3 review on Ars Technica? (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/003/panther/macosx-10.3-1.html)
    It's basically what he has complained about ever since 10.0: that there are still so many little things bugging the user. If Apple doesn't change something about this, Os X 10.4 will still be a "work in progess" for many people ( a VERY COOL OS with little quirks in it that just don't fit).
     
  11. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #11
    Yes, I read it. John came from OS 9 world (which some things I don't like), but he makes a lot of good points, especially about one of the most important features, the finder is totaly being neglected. I think this is a "compete with MS" syndrome. MS has always done big feature stuff and ignored the little things too (just look at how inconsistant MS Office/Windows is), but back in the Win95/98 days apple wasn't much a threat, so they could do things a little more slowly, even with XP they took thier time. Apple though, is in the spot-light, and therefore have to innovate like mad, therefore, little things in-between end up getting cut. Just look at dashboard, its not really a Konfabulator rip-off as much as it is a direct feature-to-feature (though implemented differently) match to Longhorn's desktop sidebar.

    This attitude of match the competeition's features + get the big stuff done now, and fix the little things along the way is what has made MS so successful, and I think apple/steve knows this. OS 9/NEXTSTEP and prior were created in a vacuum, which is why they were so "perfect" in thier own way, but OS X is not in a vacuum, it wan'ts to play with the big boys (MS). Even linux suffers this, even more so (Openoffice is technically great, but is ummm, not fun to use).

    Perfectionism is great, and steve is like a digital artist, but business/survival unfortunately has nothing to do with art... its who has the most bullet-points at the end of the day that wins a lot of the time... unfortunately.
     
  12. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #12
    well said. :) ... (I still hope Tiger will blow me away even in the little things that make everyday-computing so much easier)
     
  13. Muskie macrumors 6502

    Muskie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    #13
    some advice

    Tkermit, the only thing I have to say is, watch your tone. Emphasizing words with CAPS isn't the greatest idea, sometimes using italics works a bit better, and try to be as eloquent as possible. Be careful in the way you address your point(s), don't try to attack in any way. If you are attempting to get someone to read feedback, try not to run them down or sound too angry. Although you should deffinitely make it known that you are annoyed if something is bothering you, try not to sound too rude lol. Good ending with "Thank You..." though, thats always nice to hear. Pissing off someone you want to get something from is not usually the best idea :p Good idea though, I hope they listen to you.

    p.s. don't take any of that the wrong way, I don't want to sound like a prick trying to tell you how to speak :)
     
  14. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #14
    no, I see what you mean ( so keep that in mind for the next few sentences ;) ), but ;-) after all it's my money that I have invested in Apple products and by having invested in a computer platform (be it Windows or Mac OS ) I for one have expectations regarding future OS versions.

    I don't want to have to switch back to Windows in 2006 just because I find out that Windows can handle the tasks I expect my computer to do in 2006 way better than Mac OS X (after all it's not like switching cars, there is so much more attached (money-wise) to an OS choice). It may seem strange to some, and many people would say that one is willing to part from his money, because he likes the product at its current stage of development, but I say you also invest in Apple products because they are known for their innovation and you automatically expect them to continuously deliver great software for your platform. After all Longhorn is not that long away and it is reasonable to think that it may have to compete with Tiger (and not 10.5).

    It is my personal feeling that Apple (like most major companies) only decide to listen to criticism if it fits into their concept and if there are enough people complaining about it (in a way that actually makes them listen). I don't want to be rude to anyone, but it's not like I'm begging for something. Should Tiger disappoint me, I am willing to look at Longhorn as an alternative (as are many people), so really it's more like Apple asking for customers (for money). If they don't deliver, they won't get any - it's that simple. I am also pretty sure that those feedback mails aren't read by the programmers, therefore there is only a slim chance that they will get offended by this. I think Apple will have made sure that feedback mail (which they will get tons of) is read by 'customer service people' who will then filter relevant information out of the ones that seem important to them (and I don't think they take any of this personally).

    Now I may be wrong about all this, and really I was just kinda defending myself, so I am still interested in your stance on this. I do see what you meant by your response, but to me it sounded a little too dramatic...
    After all it is not like we owe Apple anything....Instead, they (should) know that we don't give them money because we have too much of it, but because we like their (current) products. We'll see what the future brings...

    btw: I write all my emails in plain-text (compatibility reasons - bit weird, I know), so using italics is not really an option. I found it very strange, that one can get offended by seeing words written in caps letters which would have been emphasized automatically in speech

    I'm not a complete ass about these things, you know :D - I have actually had a nice 'chat' (4or5 emails both ways) about current bugs in RealPlayer 10 with one of their developers last night, and I was more than impressed (instant response / I could really talk him through the problems / I didn't forget to congratulate him on the great progress they've made going from RealOne to RealPlayer 10 ;) ), especially since Real is not the kind of company that is known for its huge fan-base :rolleyes:
     
  15. Muskie macrumors 6502

    Muskie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    #15
    Yea, the plain text stuff makes sense to me, what with real vs faux italics and browser preferences for displaying text etc. The only reason I really said anything about that is because I know from my online gaming experiences, and my general online presence, that people do not generally like to be YELLED AT IN CAPS. lol. I'm not saying thats what you were doing, of course, but many people find that to be a little annoying. So how do you show what you mean? How do you correctly emphasize words or parts of words? That's one of the things that bothers me the most about online conversations. You cannot, even with the use of emoticons, caps, italicization (is that a word?), bolding, and smiley faces, always correctly display your feelings or tone.

    I definitely agree with you on your point that we all spend lots of money and invest in Apple for their known quality and innovation skills. We should give them as much feedback as possible, and make it known (to them) what works, and what doesn't, in their products. That's the best way for them to improve, right? I've got no problem with what you have to say to them. Infact, i just had trouble with some thumbnails last night when I was importing photos from my camera. It can be quite slow at times.

    I don't even have a 'problem' with the way you wrote your letter. I was just stating some things that I thought may help you, I had no intention of attacking you or wanting you to get deffensive. Just some good natured comments that I figured I would share. I wasn't trying to seem that dramatic :)

    Anyway, I didn't mean to steer this off topic, so I appologize to everyone for that.
     
  16. tkermit thread starter macrumors 68030

    tkermit

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    #16
    :) that's very true and I gotta say, that I don't have all that much experience in that area. Not being able to precisely show your feeling or tone is the reason for me to mainly use icq instant messaging for small talk and/or exchange of pure information. As soons as it comes to sensible stuff that could be easily misinterpreted if you don't have a face (and body) in front of you to read, I am very careful (I have actually experienced a few times where I really had to correct the very wrong impression that a friend of mine got from a conversation on icq, by talking to him about it in 'real life' :p )

    chr. :)
     
  17. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    Location:
    Solon, OH
    #17
    With Tiger's metadata support, the Finder should be able to read EXIF data in picture files, which wlll no doubt speed up previews. There's still the problem of pictures without EXIF information - that's where automatic icon preview generation would come in. The Finder would call on the services of an application similar to pic2icon, only it would be internal and automatic. Those two things together would surely solve the slow previews problem.
     
  18. Elan0204 macrumors 65816

    Elan0204

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #18
    Maybe someone with the Tiger preview can tell us if image previews seem to be faster? Of course I realize that this is only a beta, but it might give us an idea if Apple is working on the issue.
     
  19. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #19
    Yea, if theres not EXIF, then it should add the custom icon, and perhaps also add the EXIF data too.
     
  20. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

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    Location:
    New Zealand
    #20
    Yeah, I left a suggestion today, and finished off with "Thanks for your time". Being polite always helps :)

    As for the content of my suggestion, it's a secret ;)
     

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