Final Cut Pro vs Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, Avid, & All Others

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by elevenpower, May 7, 2005.

  1. macrumors newbie

    #1
    I've been learning the in's and out's of Final Cut Pro HD. I must say I like it more than Premier. I have a friend that prefers Premier and another one that prefers Avid Xpress. I've aslo read that Sony Vegas is very good.
    What do you guys think? I would like to hear how you guys think the major competitors in non-linear video editing softwares compare to each other. I know this is an Apple forum, but I would like to hear, for the most part, objective replys and comments.
     
  2. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    #2
    I used to use Premiere before FCP came out - and I bought FCP V1.0 and haven't looked back. Although, now Premiere isn't available for Mac anymore.

    D
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    MacFan25863

    #3
    Avid is better for real time effects, such as those used for live broadcasts, due to the dedicated render hardware you can buy (such as the Avid Mojo)

    But for nonlinear editing, such as for films, FCP is my personal fav.
     
  4. macrumors 6502

    #4
    I started out with premiere and now trying to get really good with FCP 4hd. Avid is the truth though no questions asked.
     
  5. macrumors regular

    milatchi

    #5
    I've never used Avid, so no comment.
    I have used Premiere and Final Cut Pro, and I have to say I like FCP way better.
     
  6. macrumors G3

    puckhead193

    #6
  7. macrumors regular

    milatchi

    #7
    I've tried it before but was not impressed. I think I'll wait to try a full version before I pass judgement on Avid.
     
  8. macrumors 68040

    mduser63

    #8
    Having worked with Avid Media Composer a bit (the full blown professional Avid system), I like FCP's interface much better, but there are areas in which Avid is much more powerful. Premiere is not a bad editor at all, and was/is my choice for a Windows based NLE. That said, FCP has steadily been taking over professional market share for a reason. It actually competes well with Avid's pro systems, but it's priced VERY affordably.

    I haven't used Vegas or Pinnacle's software extensively, so I don't have much of an opinion on them. It seems like Pinnacle Liquid Edition's integrated DVD authoring on the timeline could be handy at times, but I worry that it might get in the way sometimes too.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    #9
    I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.
     
  10. macrumors newbie

    #10
    Premiere and Tiger

    Has anyone got Premiere working with Tiger, everything was ok with Panther then I "upgraded". Now I find that Premiere doesn't render correctly and leaves me with four stray pixels at every transition.

    I'd set everything up to run premiere with clasic os9 but i think that means creating a partition and i don't know how (can you tell i'm new to the mac ? :)

    anyone help?
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    #11
    Ian this is very very weird because I use premiere also and ive noticed the stray pixels happen also. I don't have tiger installed yet. I just reinstalled premiere and it fixed it so far. Another thing is try to use quicktime 6.5.2 as opposed to 7 because there were some issues with 7.
     
  12. macrumors 68040

    mduser63

    #12

    I've worked with Premiere much more than I've worked with Final Cut Pro (only had Final Cut Pro for 2 months now, as opposed to 3 years with Premiere), and there's no doubt about it, Final Cut Pro is overall the more capable system. Premiere is an excellent "prosumer" editing system, while Final Cut Pro is competive in the full-blown high-end professional marketplace. There have been big name feature films (Cold Mountain for example) edited with FCP. I don't think the same is true of Premiere. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Premiere, and like I said it would definitely be my choice if I were still using Windows, but it just doesn't really compete with FCP for professional work.

    I still think that for the average computer user that's just doing home movies and playing around with video editing, iMovie, Final Cut Express, Premiere Elements, Pinnacle Studio, etc, are perfectly fine, and in that case FCP (and even Premiere) are overkill.
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    JeDiBoYTJ

    #13
    FCP takes the cake easily. its the whole reason I bought a mac.

    Im never really used premiere before... but I did recently. and man did it feel CLUNKY compared to FCP. maybe I just didnt give it enough time, but I didnt really like it.

    Adobe Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro was basically made by the exact same engineers, so the guts of the two are nearly identical, but I think FCP is more intutitive than Premiere.

    I have a friend who use Sony Vegas... and it seems like a cool program just for the fact that it can do 5.1 surround sound right in the program
     
  14. macrumors newbie

    #14
    I started off using Pinnicle, and quickly moved onto premier 6.5.
    At work however i have a choice of Premier Pro, and Vegas 6. I find myself constantly using Vegas 6. Usually, in my field of work, video projects rear their heads at the last minute, and need to be completed promptly. As far as a fast, reliable chopping tool that can handle hours of hours of footage, with a good user interface, and user friendly tools, you can do alot worse than Vegas 6. Its often overlooked and people dont seem to know much about it, but its far superior to the Pinnicle systems, and handles HD remarkably well (on the right machine). It's definatly worth having a dable with it, if you can get your hands on a copy.
    In some repects, it is not as superior to FCP and Premier, but both these programmes have their weeknesses too. I like to exploit the fact i have all these editing programmes at my disposal and flip between them all, using each one for its strengths.
     
  15. macrumors newbie

    #15
    Vegas vs. Final Cut

    Hello, need some advice
    on Vegas vs. Final Cut Studio.

    For feature film editing, what does FCP do
    so well or advantage over Vegas? ie, some things
    only FCP can do?

    I know FCP is just better and I would get it if I had the $
    but I just want to know what I'm missing out if I use something else.

    I got a copy of Vegas 6 which I am trying out now.
    I need to upgrade my Windows hardware, costing $700.

    As a film school student, I know Vegas should
    be sufficient for short movies.
    BUT, I also want to make 60-90 min. features on
    video and I don't want to find out later that
    Vegas has some limitations and that it doesn't do
    "Professional quality" work...whatever that means
    when people tell me that.

    I don't plan to make any SF, special effects intensive
    stuff or shoot HD.

    thanks so much,
     
  16. macrumors 6502a

    #16
    >>>As a former Pro LA based tv/film editor..i would ask you...what do you want to do? Small home projects?...FCP is great. Low budget documentaries?... FCP great. I think Premier is sheer garbage. I did a documentary in India on it..and it was torture. Premier Pro ...i *hear* is better, but still falls significantly short of FCP. If you want to be a Professional editor in tv or film...AVID 1st, then add FCP to your skill set in case you end up working at Showtime, Playboy or the Discovery Channel. (To a large degree...once you learn one..the second app comes easy.) Law & Order ain't using FCP...get it? Sure there are exceptions like, Walter Murch did Cold Mountain on FCP, etc...and FCP can work fine..especially on story based films and docus. BUT...King Kong wasn't cut on FCP and if you try to cut a big multicam tv reality show on FCP...nightmare. FCP's media management vs. Avid's is quite poor. That will probably change at some point, but vaporware doesn't cut it.

    I would also add this...if you are looking for a career...there are a kazillion "editors" now...people who equate knowing an application like FCP or Media Composer to actually BEING a skilled editor. Big mistake. The app is merely a tool and has absolutely NOTHING to do with being an editor. It is a quite oversaturated field now. If you are passionate about editing...cool...then follow your bliss, but i would suggest getting into 3d (Maya for film) , (3dsMax for games) ...OR... compositing (Shake)...much better career move. Bigger learning curve, but bigger payoff.

    Good luck..

    peace
     
  17. macrumors member

    #17
    This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor. However, AVID's stranglehold on the tv/film/doc/corporate,etc. industries is slowly loosening. IMO, although media management in FCP is atrocious compared to AVID, it is not a dealbreaker. I've cut PBS docs on FCP with very little problems.

    I disagree about your outlook on a career in editing. Yes, the market is saturated, but the ones getting work are still experienced, skilled editors; not app-knowing newbies. you think editing is saturated? I would definitely assert that motion fx is even more saturated. It's the 'sexy' trade to know these days. Maybe it's just me, but the more competition the better. It pushes your skills further...
     
  18. macrumors G4

    #18
    here's one more....


    Have any of you seen "Cinelerra"? Don't judge a product by the size of the
    marketing budget that pushes it. see http://heroinewarrior.com and follow the
    "Cinelerra" link. Yes I know this is a Mac forum but people are talking about
    Avid, Adobe and Vegas. Cinelerra can do just about anything you can thnk of
    miltitrack editing and compositing and it can make use of a "render farm" so
    render speed is limited only by your budget. Very steep learning curve
    as it depends on a gazillion keyboard shortcuts.

    I'll not argue that this is the best or not, just one more option. For people without
    money Cinelerra may be the only option if you need multitrack editing and
    compositing

    It has been used for film school projects and some professional work in places
    like Estern Europe where budgets are tighter then in the US.
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    #19
    QUOTE=3dit3r]This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor. However, AVID's stranglehold on the tv/film/doc/corporate,etc. industries is slowly loosening.

    >>>I agree..and applaud it. "Slowly" is oh-so-true. Quite slowly. I remember people saying FCP was taking over the industry in late 2000. It's 2006...yet in high-end tv and film, Avid is still King today. It woke Avid up from its arrogant slumber. They are actually giving mediocre customer service now..a huge improvement. :) And the new products ain't too shabby either. Personally, I hope FCP becomes such a great product... that it does indeed become the King of NLEs.

    IMO, although media management in FCP is atrocious compared to AVID, it is not a dealbreaker.

    >>>It's a dealbreaker if you're working on Fear Factor! Try syncing and grouping 22 cameras with TC drift in FCP...and managing that media...NO THANK YOU. Like I said..for PBS, Discovery Channel, Docs, etc...FCP is a fine choice.

    3dit3r:
    I've cut PBS docs on FCP with very little problems.

    >>yep. Exactly what *I* originally said..and repeated above. FCP is cool for docs. There *are* things i prefer about FCP...but I would choose Media Composer everytime overall given the choice.

    3dit3r:
    I disagree about your outlook on a career in editing. Yes, the market is saturated

    >>>Then we *don't* disagree...do we?

    3dit3r:
    , but the ones getting work are still experienced, skilled editors;

    >>Exactly..and how is an *unexperienced* "editor" to get a gig?..uh... Porn??? Many established top notch FILM editors are going into tv now..to find work!...at big cuts in pay. Law & Order is a prime example. The old mentor relationships via assistant editing are long gone ..and THAT is a GREAT shame. Hey, i believe in following your passion..and if editing is where one's passion lies..then you will be successful. That creative passion will carry you through eventually. BUT....If you're not 100%... truly passionate about it..or don't have an Uncle in the Industry...VERY TOUGH ROAD in my opinion.

    3dit3r:
    not app-knowing newbies. you think editing is saturated? I would definitely assert that motion fx is even more saturated.

    >>>We'll have to disagree. Plus..by motion fx..do you mean After Effects??? Not remotely true in my experience (3d film animation). And 3d gaming?...wow...massive demand. The "price of entry" is far greater than "editing" which shrinks the pool dramatically.

    3dit3r:
    It's the 'sexy' trade to know these days. Maybe it's just me, but the more competition the better. It pushes your skills further...[/QUOTE]

    >>>i have nothing against competition. I agree, it's a nice kick in the a$$, but i believe my points remain. Next time you watch a FX heavy(or light) film or an animation feature like "Nemo"...watch the credits..count how many animators, digital matte artists, COMPOSITORS(!), etc, etc, etc it requires..working for two years(!)..to create ONE single 90 minute film. Then count the number of editors involved. Maybe it's just me....

    peace
     
  20. macrumors newbie

    #20
    My all time favorite goes to Leitch Velocity (was DPS Velocity, then Leitch bought it out)

    I found this program to have the best user interface and when I was using it hard, (5-6 years ago) real-time effects were better than any.

    But since its proprietary software/hardware (breakout box) not many will go for it.
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    rjphoto

    #21
    I'm not much help on the feature film editing end, but I can tell you to look into Apple's Education Discounts through your school.

    FC Studio for $699

    If that's still outside of your budget try Final Cut Express to get you feet wet at $149 (EDU Discount)
     
  22. macrumors 6502

    #22
    I myself use Final Cut a lot, and havent touched Avid, so I can't comment on that. I am currently forced to use Pinnacle at school, and while it's nice that it doesn't crash, it is sloooww and everything takes 10 times as long as it would in Final Cut. It can't do anything realtime.
    Also, Vegas. I havent used it myself extensively, but I've worked with a guy who has. His speed was amazing, I've never seen anyone doing work that fast before. He knew the software by head and he could do work almost perfectly without even looking at the material (at least it seemed like he never watched it). He was doing mostly audio work, but he was convinced that the software was a very good video editor too. The only time I used it was to put sound on a timeline for a three hour DVD thing, with video already on the timeline. While the startup and save was ridiculously slow, working in the project itself was simply amazingly fast.

    I'd go with Final Cut though.
     
  23. zim
    macrumors 65816

    zim

    #23
    FCP. I have worked with Premier, Avid and Media 100 and nothing compares, in my opinion, to the ease of use and compatibility of FCP.
     
  24. macrumors 6502

    iris_failsafe

    #24
    I think is in order to comment about the rumour that at NAB Apple will unveil Final Cut Extreme... Supposedly a 10K Turnkey system to compete with the big Avid systems.

    So what do you guys think about Smoke, its been a while since I worked in it... Truth I got exasperated with it, rendered an image sequence and finished the editing in FCP 1 that I had at the time...

    Nevertheless love the paint system...
     
  25. macrumors newbie

    #25
    Vegas is super fast. But you have to get used to the media management system. But as long as you can keep your eye on everything, and make sure all your files are named correctly and efficiantly etc, then you can tear thru a project with great ease in vegas. I work for a well established video games developer, and even the audio dept use Vegas as part of their tools.
    Give it a chance, and you shall see.
    Im convinced by the time version 7/8 comes out, sony will have a real contender on their hands for best edit system, and may overshadow others.
     

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