Focus on the Family

Discussion in 'Community' started by diorio, Nov 22, 2002.

  1. diorio macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Who thinks that Focus on the Family is right to do what they do. They are against Harry Potter and things like that. Should they take a childrens book and analyze it to see if it has anti-christian views? Or should they focus on their own damn family as many bumper stickers would have them do?
     
  2. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #2
    Everybody knows Harry Potter is full of subliminal Satanist messages. Whatever helps rid the world of anti-Christian scum, I say!
     
  3. jrv3034 macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Great idea!!!

    Yeah, let's take the first book in quite a while that actually got kids excited about reading and try to ban it!:rolleyes:

    It really is a shame that people and organizations seem to find the time to actually rally for dumb-a** causes, when there are children starving to death in the world. Sure, people in Moscow were taken hostage by Chechnian rebels and most of them died, but let's focus on IMPORTANT things, like making sure our kids don't REALLY believe that broomsticks can fly. :mad:

    Sheesh...
     
  4. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #4
    It's called freedom of speech. Ignore them or speak up and state why you disagree with them. But suggesting that perhaps they should shut up is not what the US--or many other democratic states--are supposed to be about.
     
  5. ChicagoMac macrumors regular

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    #5
    Analyzing children's books is a very small part of what they do. These people are doing their job, so to suggest they are ignoring their own families because they have a job is ridiculous. I deal with both healthy and hurting families every week. Focus on the Family is serving a genuine need. If God's plan for the family was followed, there would be far less problems in the world.
     
  6. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #6
    you are all so right, lets burn the books we do not agree with.

    oh wait, that was done before.

    anyways, good luck banning harry potter for my kids sake, I'd hate to see the supreme court slam you. what school systems are currently doing is atrocious, banning some of the books they dont like?

    its an outrage.
     
  7. diorio thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    But honestly, is focus on the family so all knowing that they have the right to interpret God and say the He has said that books such as Harry Potter must not be allowed to spread the evil word?

    I honestly find that whole part of Focus on the Family quite a joke, only the hardcore christians will follow any suggestions proposed by them. It's also quite sad that they would try to ban the most popular children's book series because of subliminal satanic messages. You would think that excitement in children would be the more important agent for focus on the family.

    Just my opinion, and it seems, the opinon of most users who have responded.
     
  8. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #8
    Its great that Harry Potter has got children to read again. In the end children will learn the values of their family. My Pastor sees nothing wrong with Harry Potter, his own daughter has read all the books so far. Its a Christian church. My wife has read all the books so far also.
     
  9. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    #9
    Well not my opinion, m'laddio! Focus on the Family views the Harry Potter books as a wolf in sheep's clothing. The books are fun and adventurous, but at the same time they promote concepts like wizardry and witchcraft.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the Harry Potter stories (although I've only seen the movies, not read the books), and I'm old enough to know better about that stuff, but since these stories are geared towards a younger audience, that is why Focus on the Family is concerned, because younger viewers are more easily impressioned.

    And please don't make generalizations like "only hardcore Christians will follow any suggestions proposed by them", because that simply isn't true.
     
  10. vniow macrumors G4

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    #10

    What's so bad about that?
     
  11. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    #11
    Some Christians (safe to say most) believe that witchcraft and sorcery is working with evil spirits and Satan, and consequently isn't something they would want to teach to their children.
     
  12. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #12
    Analyzing mysticism in this way is completely subjective.

    Harry Potter transforming a feather into a stick constitutes working with evil spirits, but Jesus transforming water into wine is a divine miracle. :rolleyes:
     
  13. jrv3034 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Yeah, but the characters in the books also celebrate Christmas. What Focus on the Family should do is encourage the parents to talk to their kids about the books and explain that it is fantasy, not reality, and to try to see the conflicts of good versus evil in these books as examples for our daily struggles with crime, war and the like. Instead of banning the books, aznalyze them with an open mind, and let your kids read them (with adult supervision if need be) and it will only make the children more well rounded individuals.

    The real question is how many of the people complaining about the books have actually read them?

    Besides, I don't hear anybody complaining about the Wizard of Oz. Plenty of witchcraft there...:rolleyes:
     
  14. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    #14
    Are they celebrating the birth of Christ or the time of year where you get presents from Santa Claus? Lots of people celebrate holidays without acknowledging their origins.

    True, but the Wicked Witch of the West gives you a clue right there as to which side she's on. The difference here is that Harry Potter is the good guy.
     
  15. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #15
    We need to celebrate the family in American culture. Good values can be taught by all the items mentioned, its parents discussing it with their children.
     
  16. vniow macrumors G4

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    #16
    And a lot of people would be suprised to know that the Christmas tree comes from an ancient Druid tradition. A pagan ritual.

    I hope you didn't forget the Good Witch of the North either.
    There's good people and bad people in just about every mythic children's tale like that, the only difference in Harry Potter is that they're wizards.
    The Wizard of OZ is basically one big LSD trip. Are we to ban that because it promotes drugs?
     
  17. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    Feb 24, 2001
    #17
    How about we compile a list of all the things that can teach kids witchcraft:
    Lord of the Rings
    Harry Potter
    The Sword in the Stone
    Star Wars (the force can easily count as sorcery)
    Dungeons & Dragons
    All Fantasy Books

    Let's just keep all these away from our kids. In fact, let's burn all of these! :rolleyes:

    Lord of the Rings has been around for years and I don't see a huge group of Satanists running around communing with evil spirits. The legend of Merlin has been around even longer and kids haven't turned into devil-worshippers over that.

    It's a really weak arguement against Harry Potter when you get right down to it. Harry Potter is about a boy becoming more then he was born to and fighting against evil. If you think that turns you into a devil-worshipper then just keep thinking that.
     
  18. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #18
    True. But because it is subjective, everyone will have a different take on it and speak from that viewpoint. And that's where tolerance comes in.

    Has Dr. Dobson actually requested the banning of the books? If so, that would be a violation of a number of laws in our country. If not, then he has every right to criticize the books as possibly being a negative influence on children. Just like you guys can criticize him for a lack or properly-ordered priorities. Freedom of speech, you know.


    Yes, it is. To a Christian, the spiritual world is divided into two sharply-delineated camps: God, and his former second-in-command, Lucifer. Both have supernatural abilities. If Harry Potter has not committed himself as a disciple of Jesus (which as far as I know he clearly hasn't), then he's getting his power from someone else. Despite the fact that he's honorable and trying to use his spiritual powers for good, he's using the wrong source.

    People may ask what difference does it make, as long as he does positive things for people? Because satan never does anything in the bests interests of people. As long as his former God (he's since become his own god) considers humanity to be of great importance, he will do whatever it takes to distract people from the truth of the Gospel (that we need Jesus for our lives both after we die as well as here right now). I'm not sure why, but if I were to speculate, it would be because a) it's one way of hurting God (destroying the lives of creatures God got brutalized on a crucifix for), and b) it's out of ego: see how many people he can turn his way in spite of God's goodness to them. And if that means waving something seemingly good in the faces of people--like the power to heal someone's fatal illness, e.g.,--then that is what he will do.

    (For those who do not understand the Christian thinking on this, God is not impressed by our good works. So healing someone supernaturally will not protect you from His judgement. We get into God's favor by allowing Him to wash our sinfulness away with the blood he lost approximately 2 millenia ago. That's all it takes--not our ego-boosting good deeds. But that's not to say that faith in Christ as Savior gives us the permission to sin, either. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. But without faith in Jesus as your spiritual savior, so are your good works.)

    And there might be yet a third reason for satan desiring to deceive us. The writers of the 'Left Behind' series seem to suggest that at the time of Jesus' return, satan may feel that if he has enough humans on his side (there are now about 6 billion of us) that he can defeat God once and for all and take his place on the throne of God--what all of this garbage ultimately stems from. What he refuses to see is that finite beings can not destroy an infinite one.

    Oh well... that's my shpeal (or however you spell it). I TRIED to clarify the Christian position on all of this. I hope I've done so accurately.
     
  19. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #19
    >God is not impressed by our good works. So healing someone supernaturally will not protect you from His judgement. We get into God's favor by allowing Him to wash our sinfulness away with the blood he lost approximately 2 millenia ago. That's all it takes--not our ego-boosting good deeds.

    Umm, I think God expects more out of us than simply asking for our sins to be washed away, just not boasting our works.

    also, I personally dont think the 2nd coming of Jesus will occur for some time. I think it will be when everyone has completely forgotten the faith. Those whom tought "The END is at Hand" or "Prepare for the rath of GOD" are nuts. The fact is, noone knows. No ONE! (but god)

    but does Jesus, Mary or anyone else like that?
     
  20. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #20
    It is by faith not just works.

    No one know the day or the hour, not the son, but only the father. God himself will decide.
     
  21. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #21
    Reread my post. In one of my many sentences, I typed:

    "The Bible says that faith without works is dead." But if you think that donating a million dollars to starving children will buy your way into Heaven, according to the Bible, you will be sorely disappointed. If that was all it took, He never would have allowed Himself to be nailed to a cross. It was this washing away of human sin that made Him allow Himself to be murdered.


    Never suggested a timeframe, but I believe it MIGHT be the opposite of what you wrote, that it will be at a time when the largest number of people possible have come to Him--so as to assure the greatest number of people possible their salvation. Here are a few verses concerning that topic:

    "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:36

    Jesus compares his second coming to the coming of a thief in the night. "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." (emphasis mine) Matthew 24:43-44.

    Also:

    "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
     
  22. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #22
    Let's take a giant step back here...

    My comparison of Harry Potter and Jesus was intended to show how ridiculous the claims are that witchcraft/wizardry are something to be feared. The Bible tells of countless tales of miraculous feats performed by "God"/his disciples. The Harry Potter books tell of similar wondrous acts. Who are we to judge where the power of those acts comes from?

    Playing the Devil's advocate here (pun very much intended), what's the difference between the Harry Potter books and the collective stories that make up the modern day Bible? Why do people follow the gospel of a collection of stories from 2000+ years ago?
     
  23. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

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    #23
    Interesting...

    Kethoticus--I think you did a great job of explaining the position without being inflammatory or defensive. Just wanted to let you know I appreciated that. It actually helped me understand their position better. While I still disagree vehemently, I will always defend their right to express it.

    Actually, as a Coloradan (and someone who works in Colorado Springs, where FoF is based), the only thing Focus on the Family has done that I found hateful and offensive was Amendment 2. For those unaware or who don't recall, it effectively permitted discrimination based on sexual orientation. While they promoted it as denying protected status to homosexuals, its effect was more dangerous. It would have permitted me as a landlord to deny housing to a tenant or potential tenant if I found s/he was homosexual, or as an employer to fire someone if I discovered s/he was gay. While the citizens of Colorado passed this in 1992, it was overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.

    As a footnote, Colorado has become much more progressive since then. Amendment 2 wouldn't have a chance now--many polls after the 1992 election indicated that many voters had actually misunderstood what the initiative's effect would have been.

    I fully support free speech. However, I find promoting intolerance and ignorance to be troubling. My opinion (based largely on what I was taught in Catholic school) is that Jesus probably wanted to people to be critical thinkers, reject the status quo when it was wrong (e.g., befriending a whore, as He did), and form their own opinions about things. If you believe that morality is not "made up," but is instead "truth," then it can be discovered if we simply trust people and provide them a loving environment in which they can discover truth.

    It is my opinion that that was Jesus' intent.

    Chris
     
  24. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #24
    wow, a lot of this belongs in my harry potter thread... But that
    doesn't matter...

    It makes me mad that one could think that the witchcraft and
    wizardry in Harry Potter could promote children believing in
    Satan. Is Satan, or God for that matter, mentioned once in any
    of the movies? No.... If you think your kid is going to grab a
    broom and jump of the roof with the broom between his legs
    then don't let your kid see the movie, but don't try to keep other
    parents from letting their children see Harry Potter. And kid
    old enough to read Harry Potter is old enough to know not to
    believe they can fly, cast speels, or do other forms of mysticism.
     
  25. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    #25
    Just for the record, J.R.R. Tolkien was a Christian.

    Harry Potter is relatively innocent, but you have to put it into perspective: these are young boys and girls that younger viewers can directly relate to. Most of the other books you mention don't have that tie, nor are they meant for an age group as young as Harry Potter. Naturally the younger the target the more careful a parent should be in what their children see. That's why Focus on the Family is concerned.

    Obviously a little kid seeing Harry Potter doing magic won't turn them instantly into a devil-worshipper, but to say that it would have absolutely no consequence or determination on their future, no matter how minute, is impossible to tell. The more acceptable it appears to the child, the more willing they are to try it for themselves and the better the chance they will.
     

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