For those of you about to upgrade we salute you

Discussion in 'Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) Discussion' started by the Natetrix, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. the Natetrix macrumors member

    Nov 25, 2003
    I hate to say it, but I'm done. I'm out. I installed Panther, clean and neat, Font book ate my system fonts without me telling it to do so - so no I have done what I never thought I would need to - I downgraded my Mac.

    For anyone reading this, Panther is buggy. Granted its still fresh in its infant stages, but what was wrong with Jaguar that it needed this overhaul? It is Flash for cash, and anyone who says otherwise truly doesn't grasp a basic concept: When something doesn't even work to the standards of its predecessor it is superfluous trash.

    Sure it is VERY fast, the graphics are slicker and I barely saw a beachball (not including Font Book) but with that comes a plethora of bugs that at this point in the career or the OS X family are pitiful.

    Apple needs to address these issues and soon, we are talkin before Winter or they will lose sales. Period.

    And for those of you who have not experianced any of these bugs you were warned about - Just wait, they'll come.
  2. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    Re: For those of you about to upgrade we salute you

    i think everything you said until this was fair. but seriously, it happens all the time, upgrades cause adverse reactions for some users. except for the occasional, like 10.2.8 (the original), it is limited to a small group of people. i don't think your assessment that *everyone* with panther will have problems is accurate.

    i haven't yet upgraded, but it's because i can't afford it right now. i have no qualms about upgrading, if it causes problems i'll downgrade... but chances are very good that it will cause no problems at all.

  3. the Natetrix thread starter macrumors member

    Nov 25, 2003
    I agree with you, it might be a tad too brash to say that EVERYONE will get a massive system failure, and bugs do come in all shapes and sizes regardless of the operating system. Just becareful with your hard earned cash, because so far I have yet to see any reason I should have spent mine on Panther. If it ain't broke with Jaguar why fix it?

    And I think thats the question here - why upgrade if it just causes more problems then it may be worth? And why IS it so ubsurd to question why a program can't run near flawlessly? How naive is that honestly? (no sarcasm here I really want to know)
  4. MoparShaha macrumors 68000


    May 15, 2003
    San Francisco
    I admit I've heard many people having problems with Panther, and I'm sorry to hear that. I've had Panther since the day it was released, and have it on 3 of my Macs at home. It has performed flawlessly, and continues to do so.
  5. Datazoid macrumors regular

    May 10, 2002
    I hate to say it, but I almost agree with that assessment. Yes, it is a bit brash, but I have had far more problems with Panther than I have with any OS X version since 10.0. Right now I would have a very difficult time recommending Macs to somebody because of the number of major problems that I have encountered with Panther. Yes, Jaguar had its share of bugs too, but those that I have encountered in Panther are significantly more severe. Although I love the new features and speed, I do not blame the Natetrix for downgrading his system. Apple really needs to hurry with the next update...

  6. m_gerbik macrumors member

    May 27, 2003
    The Big Scrapple
    Re: For those of you about to upgrade we salute you

    Hey that was the last line of this horror movie I saw last night! Creepy!
  7. FuzzyBallz macrumors 6502a


    May 2, 2003
    Home of Al-Qaida
    It's the Karma at work. I upgraded from Jag to Panther w/o a prob. All the programs are running fine like they did in Jag, no lag, no crashes, not a single prob. I rarely do upgrades, PC or Mac. But hearing the fuzz about people killing their system by upgrading to Panther, I tried it myself.

    Although I must say, it's a bit waste of money if you're happy w/ Jag. The Video iChat's nice, but I don't have iSight and none of my friends and relatives use a Mac w/ iSight, or web cam. I don't use Expose, don't use fast acct. switching, nor the File Vault. It's a good thing I didn't have to pay for Panther.
  8. ExoticFish macrumors 6502a


    Dec 3, 2002
    The inner depths of madness, aka Kent, OH
    i have yet to have one single problem with Panther. so far it's been the best operating system i've ever used.
  9. stcanard macrumors 65816


    Oct 19, 2003
    I have yet to see a problem with Panther.

    That said, it's just common sense -- if you don't see anything in a new OS that you need (or a "must have" want), don't do the upgrade! The chance won't go away and you let other people sort out the problems.

    One of the many disservices Microsoft has done computers is to try and convince people that old operating systems are bad (of course this is only because they need to create upgrade churn).

    Old operating systems are _good_. They are stable after years of tweaking. They are secure after years of inspection. They support a huge amount of legacy hardware.

    Rule of thumb: only upgrade to a new operating system when it provides a feature that you need and cannot get in the current one.

    Unless it's a non-mission critical system and you like getting your hands dirty (like me!). Then you throw all the alpha and beta patches you can find on it and have fun hacking source files!
  10. Toeknee macrumors regular


    Sep 24, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
  11. hulugu macrumors 68000


    Aug 13, 2003
    the faraway towns
    Very thin skin

    Well, I waited for Panther to come to its first update, then I bought it.
    Brought it home, did a clean install and everything has worked very well. There are some nice additions, Expose', iChat AV, better Save dialog, much better Windows server support, instituted CUPS, etc. Safari crashed once, my airport did bug out for a minute when I first did the install, but everything has been very well-behaved.
    However, I will leave File Vault alone for a while, as well as Font Book, which I believe is something you should leave the hell alone until you really understand what you are doing, yes you can screw with fonts the system needs, and Apple should contruct a dialog asking if this is really what you want to do.
    Is Panther perfect, no and honestly it wasn't as stable as Jaguar's first interation, but it has as many Holy S**t! that's cool features that I think it's been worth it.
    Plus, it has made every machine I've put it on faster, which is nice and unusual for an upgrade.
    Apple may have fast tracked this one, and hopefully they've learned their lessons. I have a destinct feeling the same policies that caused the 10.2.8 debacle caused this; hopefully someone got fired.
    If I had to do it again...wait I did, three times. No problems on any of the machines.
  12. Edot macrumors 6502

    Jan 29, 2002

    I didn't know apps could be hungry? What are you talking about?
  13. 7on macrumors 601


    Nov 9, 2003
    Dress Rosa
    I like Panther. Only qualms I have is that it does not remember my display calibration when my 2nd monitor is unplugged. Setting up a color profile in Photoshop seems to help it.
  14. spinner macrumors regular

    Jan 16, 2002
    South Dakota
    has anyone installed it on a B&W G3 yet and if so did it speed it up any?
  15. e-coli macrumors 68000


    Jul 27, 2002
    Yeah. I'm super disappointed with Panther, too. Personally I think someone should sue Apple for false advertising. A great example of Apple's legendary truth-stretching is "print return address labels from address book". Yeah, right. :rolleyes: It should be called "print one address label from address book, and throw the rest of the sheet away".

    And FontBook....jeez. Who wrote that piece of crap?
  16. the Natetrix thread starter macrumors member

    Nov 25, 2003
    the great divide

    Seems like the Mac world is being sud divided here - one side Jag the other Panther. I want to embrace Panther, because it DOES make everything faster and sleeker, but damn there are things that just didn't need to be tickered with and they were um.. tunked(?) All Im saying is that change is good, upgrades are a necessity, and Panther had better get its act together.

    Im glad to hear it's working for people, that means that Apple hasn't become total nimrods - but it is undeniable how many bugs there really ARE in the system, and with all the literature out there screaming for Panthers lynching, I'd rather stay in my comfort zone.

    I don't like having to croos my fingers everytime I open an application.

    ps - "ate" as in deleted my fonts, I assume you were kidding, but if you were born without a sense of personification, then rest assured i didn't think it actualy ate my fonts.

    PPs - and as for not tinkering with font book, you obviously haven't much experiance with Graphic Design and its high demand of font control
  17. Kid Red macrumors 65816

    Dec 14, 2001
    *Kid Red salutes back as he returns to his happy life using Panther*
  18. coolbreeze macrumors 65816

    Jan 20, 2003
    I agree with the poster. I just upgraded from a perfectly fine working version of 10.2.8, and have had numerous issues. In all fairness, before raising hell here about these problems, I will give it a little more time. If the problems persist, I will post a lengthy thread detailing my issues. Not to cry about Panther not being perfect, but to inform others.

    Just a teaser of my issues:

    Mail (several problems)
    System Sounds
    Safari (sluggish)
    Networking (modem and airport)
    Strange "black screen" and lockup
    EDIT: Beachball city and general sluggishness

    (I did a clean install)

    The two things that I've found useful in my expensive upgrade are Expose and faster boot times. Yes, that's it. I guess the other 128 features are to be discovered? I sure hope so.

    If you are on the fence, I say stick with Jaguar and have $129 in your pocket.

    But again, I'll give it some time. If things don't improve soon, I may downgrade...and that's a shame.
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000


    Aug 13, 2003
    the faraway towns
    Re: the great divide

    PPs - and as for not tinkering with font book, you obviously haven't much experiance with Graphic Design and its high demand of font control [/B][/QUOTE]

    You make assumptions, I know a great deal about font control, I just leave the Font Book app alone, because I know its an untrustworthy little bugger.
    I'm not saying Panther is perfect, nor defending Apple's lack of quality control of late, and I think Jaguar was much better, but it still better than Windows, and some of the greater changes, like the new finder, Expose', etc. show a great potential.
    For regular users, Panther is very nice, but I would wait to install it on 'mission-critical' machines and I would advise graphic designers to wait because of the Font Book problems.
    Question, what exactly happened to your fonts, did it try to organize them, or did you actually try to use the app and disabled some fonts that were important to the system? As I understand it, this is the glaring flaw of the app, the ability to break stuff. I personally haven't had any problems, but I also pretend I don't have it.
    I don't think it is naive to expect a useful product and I think Apple screwed the pooch on this one, but I also believe that all new OS, in fact all new software, has bugs—this unfortunately a fact of life, ever bought the first year of a new car model?

    For coolbreeze, you did a clean install, but what are you using? Do you have a bunch of mods, added cards, etc.? What software do you use now? Did you do an erase and install and did you check permissions afterwards? Have you tried to downgrade, is it possible the upgrade uncovered some previous hardware problem?
    I'm just wondering, because it sounds like something is definitely hosed on your machine, not all these things should be wonky, especially not at once.

    Futhermore, e coli, that's just what the world needs is another lawsuit. Our overly litigious society has led to all sorts of idiocies.
  20. the Natetrix thread starter macrumors member

    Nov 25, 2003
    sorry hulugu, I didn't mean to sound rude, and no I have really no other choice but to go into Font book since it wouldn't let me use Extensis Suitcase since for me suitcase would constantly relaunch over and over again. *Anyone else have this problem*? I figured it was just because it was in the list of apps to launch at log in, but no go when I ran suitcase again after I logged in, the finder would freak anyway.

    Sooo... I was in font book, no choice because I needed to activate certain fonts families, and then I just decided to delete a SINGLE font, that was installed BY ME when I was running jaguar and there were never any problems. I asked font book to 'REMOVE FONT' (mistake number 1)) and I swear on my eternal soul that it just deleted EVERY font except monaco and courier. Sooo that did it for me. And it is my humble opinion that something like that should never happen...EVER... esspecially in a 3rd generation OS.

    sorry but the P.OS isn't worth the risk.
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000


    Aug 13, 2003
    the faraway towns
    In the words of Bender, my favorite psychotic robot...

    you're boned.

    And don't worry about it, I think I may have avoided the problems your having by luck.
    Extensis Suitcase may not have Panther support and some apps do freak out—this happened with Jaguar also. As I understand it, Font Book doesn't like having fonts removed, basically just leave the damned things around.
    It reminds me of Mail when the first OSX.1.1 update came around, Mail was a buggy squirelly mess and then by Jaguar it became my primary mail application. Font Book shows some real promise, but like I've said, I don't trust it. However, it does handle some of the Unicode fonts I need, and it didn't muck up my old fonts from Jag, which brings me to a question, didn't you do a clean install? If so, how did the old Jaguar font come into Font Book, that stuff should be gone.
    Other than Font Book and File Vault, Panther is pretty nice, and I think once you get going with your Fonts you'll find that Expose fricking rocks, hit F9 to show all, hit F11 to clear the desktop, F10 to show all the windows for that app. I go to a Windows machine and just ache for it now.

    Plus, it's not just Apple. I made the mistake of installing Windows XP Service Pack 2 and guess what it boned my major app. Thanks again Bill!

    (edit, added appropriate MS bash)
  22. the Natetrix thread starter macrumors member

    Nov 25, 2003
    Oh I clean installed Panther and I had my old Jaguar fonts that I had personally installed saved to a disk (since I use them frequantly at various places). So I just imported them into my user/library/fonts folder. Easy-peesey-japanessey
  23. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Yes, I did and yes, it did. :) I think you'll be surprised. You know to have plenty of RAM anyway, right?

    I did an upgrade installation and it went fine.

    As a matter of fact, both of my machines went fine. I still have one drive in the G3 on 10.2.8 but I haven't booted from it since Panther arrived.

    With FontBook, you need to make certain you have it copy the font files to the new location (preferences) so it won't delete them from the old location.
  24. visor macrumors 6502

    May 13, 2003
    in bed
    To be honest with you: I've upgraded to panther, and it works by far better than any jaguar version i've had before.
    I did have some problems with servers, but looking at it in detail, it turned out that the servers where malinstalled, and after they where corrected, panther works smooth as silk.

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