Forget about the draft, here comes the IRR

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Ugg, May 18, 2004.

  1. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #1
    Link


    So, you signed up, served your time and now the US can come and demand that you go back to work. Not only that, but it is trying to subvert laws governing IRS info to find these people. This is bad news.

    Can you imagine? You've got a real job, a home, bills, etc and NOW the government comes in and says that you have to give it all up and go to work for them probably at a fraction of your current wage.
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #2
    Whoa up. Part of the deal about the Ready Reserve is that you will tell the Gummint your current address. You don't keep them informed, you've broken the deal and you're the bad guy.

    For some 62 years to my awareness, millions of guys have gone into the service, leaving behind jobs and wives and kids and suchlike. Your gripe should be about the uses of the military, not the system which provides for it.

    This came up, peripherally, at brunch this AM. Five of us Old Farts were reminiscing about our military years. One mentioned the attitude of the dentists at Elmendorf AFB, who'd been drafted for two years and had left quite lucrative practices. But: Would you be happier that the Airmen there had no dentists at all?

    'Rat
     
  3. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #3
    Fine. I understand. But really, does the government breaking the law to catch lawbreakers fly with you?
     
  4. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #4
    Military enlistments or commissions are always in quanta of 8 years.
    You could do the full 8 years in active duty.
    You could do the part of the 8 years in active duty, part in reserve, and part in the individual ready reserve.
    You are considered part of the military up until the day you receive your DD214, which are your discharge papers.

    Why is anyone surprised that the government can use government (IRS) resources in order to locate members of the IRR?
     
  5. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #5
    So when is the last time the IRR was called up? Shouldn't something like that be used for national emergencies instead of unjustified wars? Or, is this just another indication of poor planning on the neocons part?

    The IRS should never be used for such purposes. Taxes and military service don't mix, IMHO this is an indication of nascent fascism. Hasn't the Pentagon heard of the internet?
     
  6. numediaman macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago (by way of SF)
    #6
    By George I think he's got it. It took you guys long enough.
     
  7. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #7
    Actually, the IRR has never been called up, because you can't really call up the IRR. The only thing you can do is call up individual soldiers in the IRR 'program' to report to a particular place and time. Then, depending on their military readiness, meaning fitness, finances, etc, they are either put into a training battalion where they are treated like new recruits for a few weeks until they are back in shape, or they put with a new unit that needs their skill set.

    As far as your comment about 'something like that be used for national emergencies', I think you are confusing IRR with the militia. The militia can be called up, but we have not done that for generations. And even if the militia were called up, chances are you would not want to use militia in foreign engagements. Better to use them in defense of their homes/CONUS, where they have the advantage of familiar territory, since militia, especially when it has not been called up in any regularity for such a long time would probably be poorly-equipped and probably worse off in fitness than the IRR soldiers.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #8
    You know they'll come and take you away AT THE POINT OF A GUN!!! :eek: I mean, that's your objection to taxes in general, right? That the IRS agents will come to your house against your constitutional rights and haul you off AT THE POINT OF A GUN!!! :eek: But since it's military related it's ok with you, just as it's ok by you for taxes to be wasted on NMD, but not on anything like National Health Care or Social Security... noooo not that. If you mention that then the badnasty gummint comes and takes you away AT THE POINT OF A GUN!!! :eek:
     
  9. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #9
    The militia is a moot point in this day and age unless you're one of those types holed up in the backwoods issuing your own currency and denying the legitamacy of the US govt because it is a member of the UN. So, I don't see why you brought it up.....

    So what you're saying is that the IRR has never been utilized by the US or are you just avoiding the issue?

    My point was that the IRR should only be activated during times of extreme crisis. This war IMHO does not qualify as such yet the US after hiring 20,000 mercenaries and having over 135,000 troops in Iraq is saying that the numbers are insufficient. This means that either a the IRR are called back or a draft in instituted. Don't you think this is an extreme use of military power? Aren't you concerned that the IRS is being utilized as a tool of the Pentagon PRECISELY because it planned this war so poorly? Don't you feel any outrage that people's lives will be totally disrupted if the IRR is called up because gw wanted to avenge his Daddy? Oh, that's right, if there's a gun involved then it is perfectly ok by you, isn't it!
     
  10. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #10
    Did I indicate my approval or disapproval by that statement?
    Do you see an explicit approval or disapproval from my statement? Kinda jumpy there, aren't cha? :rolleyes:

    What if I were to tell you that during December 31, 1999, I was really, *REALLY* wishing that all governmental computers and governmental databases would succumb to the Millennium computer bug? That, it would be an extremely good idea to start from zero again?

    I'm getting tired of spanking you, thread after thread, though, its a bit enjoyable too. :cool:
     
  11. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #11
    You give explicit disapproval of using the IRS for things you don't agree with. I'm just calling you out on your hipocrasy.

    Huh? I'd say you were crazy. What's that got to do with the price of beans?

    No wonder you're getting tired, you're working like a dog and I can't feel a thing! Spank it harder big boy!

    :cool:

    That does seem an admission that you are taking this a little too personally though.
     
  12. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #12
    Not avoiding the issue at all. The IRR has been utilized by the US. I remember during the build-up to the first Gulf War, I asked the 'training' sergeant who those guys where. You see, before you are assigned to a Basic Training company, you might be put into a small 'training' company that gathers up the various recruits as their enlistments start. BT companies have start and stop dates. Lets say, a BT company started training this week, then 11 weeks later, they graduate the recruits and can start Basic training on a new group of recruits. You have multiple BT companies, but sometimes, you get a hole in the schedule where all the BT companies are within the 11 week cycle. So, you end up waiting at the 'training' company for a few weeks.

    Anyway, when I was waiting to be assigned to a BT company, I, and other recruits noticed a smaller group marching to chow after us, composed of older people. After asking around, we found out that these older people were part of the IRR, or even Reservists that are going into the Active Army. The 'training' sergeant also said that some of these people could be there until they pass the physical fitness test. Some of them were out of shape.

    So, to answer your question, the IRR has been used in the past, usually, when there is a critical skillset required. Why have an IRR if you are not going to need it from time to time?

    As to the use of IRS records, I am not the least bit surprised that the government would use IRS records, since IRS records are governmental records. Do I agree with it? No, not particularly, but I am not surprised that the government would use this information. (Since you mention guns. ;), why do you think that I'm also against the requirement of licensing or registration of guns and gun owners? In this instance, you have seen that the government can and is willing to use IRS records to locate IRR soldiers. Its not far-fetched to think that a government can also use gun licensing/registration records to initiate gun confiscation when it suited them!!! :eek: :eek: )
     
  13. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #13
    Nah, that just means you don't have any live pain receptors anymore. :eek: ;) Must be after getting repeatedly reamed by high taxes. :eek:
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #14
    That's funny, I can feel a distinct pain in my ass right now. :D
     
  15. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #15
    No records would mean no chance of inappropriate use of those records.
    Sometimes, its also nice to wipe the data trail clean because you don't know how much of the data is stale, inaccurate or just plain wrong.

    Besides, if you wanted to get back in, you could always present your paper documents.

    As you might be able to tell, I am not a big fan of 'touch-screen' or electronic voting. Give me ballots with chads, baby!
     
  16. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #16
    Don't look at me. I'm not a backdoor adventurer. :eek: :p
    Though, I hear lubrication helps. :eek: ;) :D
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #17
    Sure, it'd be great to wipe the slate clean for child molesters and rapists just so Frohickey can be sure none of his info is 'stale, inaccurate or just plain wrong'. How about taking some personal responsibility and checking the info yourself?
     
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #18

    Damn dude you make it sound so sinister like this is some cloak 'n dagger loop hole the military wants to keep quiet. If you go into the service you are aware of this. Of course *most* Americans don't go into the service so it makes sense that *most* Americans aren't aware of it. There is also the Retired Reserve. Which is basically anyone who's retired from the military, but still under the age of 60 can be called back (this included my dad up until a few years ago).


    Lethal
     
  19. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #19
    yes, a lot of people who were in debt were thinking that way. those of us w/ actual retirement accounts and positive balances were glad to keep what we'd saved.
     
  20. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #20
    You do have paper copies of the account statements they mail to you, don't you?

    As I said, I like having a paper trail.
     
  21. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #21
    Do you know where every single piece of data about you is at? I sure don't. If I did, I wouldn't be getting junk mail, and email spam!
     
  22. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #22
    Calling up individuals from the IRR was done in Korea, I know; and in Vietnam as well as later on. It's built into our system. That's why I spoke of the issue of the uses of our military, not about the system.

    Since when has it been "illegal, immoral or fattening" for the IRS--or any other agency--to provide information on the whereabouts of anybody? Isn't that public information? Even so, those who don't fulfill the requirements of which they were told upon leaving active duty can't claim privacy rights against IRS or the IRR; they broke the rules.

    Sure, it's a relatively trivial level of criminality, but the government has no legal bar against its efforts to locate a law-breaker. Going to the IRS is easier than going to the driver's license bureaus of 50 states, where any of us can find the same info.

    'Rat
     
  23. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
    #23
    hehehe... yeah, Ugg was going for the full governmental conspiracy Chicken-Little routine. You get more play if its done that way. :rolleyes:

    And, you are right too, that Ugg probably hasn't served or has any inclination going into the service (otherwise, he'd know). That stuff is only for the poor people who have no other choice, or the ones that volunteer in order to claim military veteran status when they run for higher political office. :eek: ;)

    I still like the idea in Robert Heinlein's book, Starship Troopers, about only people that have served get to vote or run for office. That, and co-ed showers! :p (if you saw the movie, which didn't follow the book at all, you'd know)
     
  24. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #24
    Yeah, Frohickey, Heinlein had a bunch of good and/or interesting ideas. What a lot of people ignore about Starship Troopers is the amount of discussion of ethics he puts forth.

    The comments from many university professors after WW II about the comparative advantage in maturity for the ex-GIs over those who hadn't served are spot-on. That hasn't changed at all, whether student or non-student. Just knowing you might get shot at tends to inculcate a different view of reality.

    'Rat
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #25
    Little government-conspiracy-Chicken-Little-paranoid yourself, aren't you? Ah well, you get more play that way, right?
     

Share This Page