Found the true negative qualm about integrated graphics...

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by 7on, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #1
    So I was rendering a DVD and about halfway done too - man is this thing fast - well I was still doing other things so I opened a widget. Big Mistake. The ripples somehow crashed iDVD. Furthermore, iDVD from then on refused to open. I thought my project was corrupted so I went to show package contents to delete the rendered files - finder crashed. I clicked on a menu extra, SystemUI crashed. I then went to restart and the restart dialogue boxed lacked a graphic. That whole experience was freaky...

    I blame sharing video RAM and System RAM.
     
  2. dr_lha macrumors 68000

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    Oct 8, 2003
    #2
    And your evidence for blaming Integrated Graphics for this is what exactly? It could have been caused by any number of things.
     
  3. 7on thread starter macrumors 601

    7on

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    #3
    Name one.
     
  4. realityisterror macrumors 65816

    realityisterror

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    #4
    Ewww... no matter what caused it, that's some bad luck...

    I still use the same Windows-esque idea that you shouldn't touch the computer while it's burning a cd, encoding, etc...


    :eek:
     
  5. erikamsterdam macrumors regular

    erikamsterdam

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    #5
    The rendering has nothing to do with displaying video. So your conclusion is weird.
    It is just an application bug where the memory addressing went wrong, that causes nasty crashes like this. Could happen on any computer, with any OS, with any sloppy programmed application.
     
  6. idea_hamster macrumors 65816

    idea_hamster

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    #6
    I commizerate -- I had a cascading app. crash once too when I was working on a video project. The power cable to my external HDD had come loose and the HDD did a couple of very quick power off-on-off-on cycles. Needless to say that DVD Studio Pro 3 couldn't quite figure that one out!

    All the apps. that I had open crashed one after another and I lost the render, but after a restrart everything worked. I was indeed creepy -- especially since I was working on someone else's machine. :D

    My guess is that when you clicked on the widget, you had to open dashboard, a RAM hungry app. (especially for video). Dashboard tried to preempt a whole bunch of RAM and iDVD couldn't give it up fast enough, causing iDVD to crash, but without releasing its RAM back to the system. So all of a sudden you were using a Mac with like 0 MB of RAM available and everytime some new app tried to do anything, it ran into a brick wall.

    Did things work after a restart?

    Maybe, but with only system RAM, wouldn't the RAM- and processor-intensive rendering process run into problems when the system tried to preempt RAM for video?
     
  7. colocolo macrumors 6502

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    #7
    I blame the Chicago Bears. My conclusion has the same substance than yours.
     
  8. dr_lha macrumors 68000

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    #8
    Bad RAM, a corrupt swap file, kernel bugs, bugs in Dashboard, bugs in iDVD, bugs in SystemUIServer etc...

    You can't just have a crash and then say its caused by Integrated Graphics with no evidence. No software is perfect, and no software never crashes. I'm not saying that Integrated Graphics didn't cause it, but you give no evidence for your conclusion.
     
  9. erikamsterdam macrumors regular

    erikamsterdam

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    #9
    "Maybe, but with only system RAM, wouldn't the RAM- and processor-intensive rendering process run into problems when the system tried to preempt RAM for video?"

    I should not, the OS should take care of that. That's why it has protected memory. Unless of course some nasty Widget does illegal things addressing memory.

    Edit: now I notice these big Quote buttons :)
     
  10. 7on thread starter macrumors 601

    7on

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    #10
    Would the Chicago Bears access a bit of RAM that iDVD was going to access? But when iDVD got there an OpenGL effect was being rendered and thus CRASHHHHH. As far as I know the Chicago Bears aren't in my MacBook.

    Apple hasn't coded for integrated graphics in a while - definitely the first time OSX and iDVD had to deal with integrated graphics.

    And I doubt ALL those things would have separate bugs. I think it's a bug in the way Apple handles memory protection with shared RAM. But that's just me.
     
  11. dr_lha macrumors 68000

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    Oct 8, 2003
    #11
    Yes, if only the rest of us had the power to debug software using only the powers of guesswork and innuendo. I know it would make my life easier.
     
  12. 7on thread starter macrumors 601

    7on

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    #12
    No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
     
  13. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #13
    I'd blame it more on the Intel processor than the Intel graphics hardware. :p Perhaps, the two cores were accessing each other's memory along with the GPU's memory.

    However, it could be like so many other things--the transition of Mac OS X to Intel hasn't smoothed out much. Good luck!
     
  14. imacintel macrumors 68000

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    Mar 12, 2006
    #14
    And that is about as interesting as...hmm...sitting in an elevator?
     
  15. imacintel macrumors 68000

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    Mar 12, 2006
    #15
    You know what I do in this experience? Shut off the computer holding the power button...:rolleyes:
     
  16. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Los Angeles
    #16
    You can blame whatever you want, but your 3D gfx card has very little to do w/encoding 2D video in iDVD. I tend to leave iDVD alone when it's doing it's thing 'cause 1. encoding MPEG2 is very proc heavy so it makes my computer sluggish as hell and 2. in my experience it's too easy to upset iDVD by using other apps while encoding & burning a disc.


    Lethal
     
  17. 7on thread starter macrumors 601

    7on

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    #17

    Ahhh, well I'm glad iDVD doesn't use RAM.

    The simple fact is that an OpenGL effect from the opening widget ripple caused iDVD to crash and other apps too.
     
  18. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Jan 5, 2006
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    Redondo Beach, California
    #18
    A cosmic ray passed through your computer and flipped a bit inside the RAM used by the kernal.

    OK unlikley but this exact senario does happen now and then and given your description there is not way to know if the problen is due to sharing video and system RAM is if the problen is the cosmic ray event. More information would be required to determine which.

    Oh yes, a video driverbug could have done the same thing. If I were to bet my money would be on the driver bug.
     
  19. -M7- macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    #19
    Well now that you have exactly and without a doubt pinpointed the error, I suggest you avoid the dashboard at all costs. I wish every computer problem would be this easy to solve :rolleyes:
     
  20. tdhurst macrumors 68040

    tdhurst

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    Portland, OR
    #20
    Uh...

    Your initial conclusion didn't make any sense, nor did your above attempt to be funny.
     
  21. 7on thread starter macrumors 601

    7on

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    #21
    I am pretty confident in my error analysis. But I won't avoid dashboard. An error like this probably won't happen again in all possibility. Much like the original System 1 copy and paste bug, but less than a 50% chance of happening. But thanks for the support.
     
  22. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    Washington D.C
    #22
    Even if your IIG is the reason, it not fair to say now IIG are crap because of one bug. Because if thats so the whole screen of my iMac is crap(when really it has only one dead pixel)

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Rev A hardware;)
     
  23. purelithium macrumors 6502

    purelithium

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    #23
    Jesus Christ! Are all you Mac guys this grumpy?

    Chill the **** out...
     
  24. tdhurst macrumors 68040

    tdhurst

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    #24
    Okay...

    He made a baseless assumption and then a stupid joke. By telling me this, you're just as bad as I am here.
     
  25. purelithium macrumors 6502

    purelithium

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    #25
    Love you too.
     

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