Freddie Adu and American Soccer...

Discussion in 'Community' started by Soc7777777, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. Soc7777777 macrumors regular

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    #1
    Right now the US is ranked #9 in the world by FIFA... what does everyone think about freddie adu... i have seen him play and he is incredible... incredible for ANYONE, let alone a 15 year old... i think he has a great future with us soccer and i think he will spark interest in the US soccer... the MLS is slowly improving and is now just a step below the premiere leagues found in germany, england and italy... the MLS 5-6 years ago was a complete joke... now they seem to be coming on with world class players such as landon donovan and beasly and adu decideing to stay in the US...

    i think in 2006 the US will be able to compete for the World Cup (i say compete... as huge underdogs... not be favored to win, as opposed to before when they were a non-factor)
     
  2. Soc7777777 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #2
    i just wanted to know what people thought about the future of american soccer and freddie adu (esp. world cup 2k6 in germany)
     
  3. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #3
    MLS as a whole is nowhere near europe. i'd say MLS is, at best, as good as serie B or english first division, but probably more like the belgian league. we have some good players but that's about it.

    as long as best athletes generally pursue football/basketball/baseball in the U.S., i don't see much chance for the U.S. soccer becoming a world power. considering countries with much, much more heralded talent level and history of soccer than the U.S. (Netherlands and Spain, for example) is yet to win the World Cup, i find it unlikely that we'll be a contender for the Cup in 2006. we should consider it a success if we make it out of the group league.

    i don't want to discredit the progress the U.S. soccer has made - it's been a pretty good and constant progress since the world cup in italy in 1990. but it's still a long, tough road ahead.
     
  4. Soc7777777 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #4
    your forgetting the fact that we have 260 million people in this country... we have the ability to have some of our best athletes persue different sports... also, have you noticed that among youth now soccer is one of the most played sports in this country... (much more than football and basketball... especially in the midwest)

    i disagree with your 'nowhere near' assumption about the mls... i think you are comparing them to the BEST division one teams... like manchester united... chelsea... inter and ac milan... barcelona ...real madrid... there arent mls teams that could compete with those teams.. but... an mls team in in a european league wouldnt seem out of place.. they may hover near the bottom in the league... but they would be respectable (i mean come on... someones got to be at the bottom...)

    all im saying is that comparing the mls to for example the english premiere league isnt like comparing the English national team to granada... anymore (used to be like that)... now its more like comparing brazil to mexico... (brazil is clearly better, but mexico could give them a match on a good day)

    i mean the US is ranked number 9 in the world wiht most of their players playing in the mls...

    then compound that with rising american stars such as taylor twellman and freddie adu... and others like them...
     
  5. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #5
    hm i don't know the stated players ... the MLS is improving but i guess it will take a lot of years... i haven't seen any games but i still think they are at least one level below the major ones (england,italy,spain,france,germany)

    i really hope the USA will play a bigger role in football perhaps this young talented freddie adu will increase the spirit..but one _possible_ worldclass player (he needs to prove that at a big event like the world cup or in foreign leagues) is not enough... 1 good player isn't enough
     
  6. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #6
    FIFA ranking means very little, btw. so i wouldn't read too much into that.

    i said MLS as a whole. the best from MLS may be marginally competitive in top divisions in europe, but that doesn't say anything about the league's strength as a whole.

    the best basketball team from WCC (gonzaga) will handily beat many teams from SEC or ACC, but would anyone say WCC as a whole is near the SEC or ACC? no way.

    soccer has always been one of the most popular youth sports. that has been the case since the 80s or earlier. while a lot of progress has been made, i just don't see the U.S. being a world power. yes, there are 260 million people. then why isn't china doing well? soccer is immensely popular in china. if few good players were enough, why couldn't french win the cup with platini? dutch with cryuff? and no one from the states have come close to those two.

    winning the Cup is an incredibly difficult thing, historically, culturally and athletically. i just don't think the U.S. has developed the sufficient "football sophistication" or "football culture" as a country to even appreciate what it means to contend for the Cup, much less seriously challenge to win it.
     
  7. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #7
    in soccer size is not important...
    look at germany they have ~80 people
    but they are lacking real football-stars at the moment... they have a lot of talented players but thats it... they can compete on international level but do they have world class players at the moment ? no
    the german DFB (kind of 'german soccer association') has at least 1 million members...

    of course there are a few teams which often dominate those leagues for a few years but there are a lot of teams with whom those world class teams are competing...there are cities with 2 top teams and others with none.... those leagues have grown ... the german premier league holds 18 teams..the second league also 18...

    how is it managed in the MLS with the last of the league ..stay the teams in the premier league or do they have to play in minor leagues if they are last ?
    yeah and the 'draft system' and 'playoff system' is absolutly ridiculous

    for example Andreas Herzog didn't get a new contract at Rapid Vienna because the team had no use for him...he was too old and not able to keep up with the rest of the team..where is he now ? playing at LA Galaxy which leads western conference and has 10 scoring points
    and Rapid Vienna was far away of winning a championship or being a world class team... and the austrian league is perhaps on of the bad leagues with lots of old players playing their last seasons and unknown players..the only player at the current EM 2004 which plays in austria is playing in the national team of latvia (sp?) which is perhaps the team with the smallest changes of winning anything at the EM
     
  8. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #8
  9. Soc7777777 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #9
    Everyone here is saying the US is sooo far away from having a chance to win, but i think you guys are forgetting 2002 when we won our bracket (and wasnt portugal in it?... they were supposed to be the best offensive team in the world)... beat up on mexico... then didnt we lose to germany 2-1 or something... anyway... the point is, that is very respectable and with a lil more skill maybe we would have been able to beat germany and go to the semifinals...

    the main skill players on the 2002 team were the young players... (landon dovan and demarcus beasly...) you cant tell me adding more young talent to an already solid team doesnt at least give them hope (im not saying that they will immediatly be better than england... but i think they are going to be a better team than germany, denmark, portugal...
     
  10. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #10
    no, i didn't forget about the world cup. again, i don't want to discredit the U.S. but several factors worked tremendously in favor of the U.S. at the last world cup.

    1) portugal was probably in one of the worst forms ever, mostly due to its star players being completely out of form from intense european football schedule. this was evident also in france. french didn't score a single goal and left korea/japan after the group round - and they were the defending champions.

    2) playing mexico was a huge advantage in the knockout stage because U.S. was familiar with them. having played and beaten the team gave Americans significant psychological advantage.

    U.S. did play very well against Germany, probably better than the score indicated. that much is true. and i do see a lot of potential in the U.S. squad mainly because America has a lot of great athletes. but they still have a long way to go. and as is the case with most countries, it's far from certain that the U.S. will make it to Germany in 2006.

    U.S. didn't win the group, by the way, Korea did. ;)
     
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #11
    I agree that the US has a long way to go, but they are farther along than most people will give them credit for. It's kinda like Macs and PCs. :D Many people still attach stereotypes to both platforms that have been untrue for years. I think part of it is also that other countries, that truly embrace the sport, are getting irked that the US, a country were it is still a 2nd class sport, is starting to become a power. Is the US a team to be feared? Not yet, but they can no longer be easily dismissed.

    The MLS is definetly below the level of first class leagues in Europe, but the play has imporved a lot sense the league first started. In 10-15 years I think the US will have a first class league (assuming homegrown talent stays in the US and doesn't jump the pond to Europe) and be very competitve team on the world stage.


    Lethal
     
  12. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #12
    true to a degree. both japan and US have long been second class in terms of football. since about early to mid 90s both countries have made good strides in improving their plays. since i'm biased (look at my 'tar!), i'd like see japan being better than the US -> hence my apparent US Soccer bashing. :D (like you said, soccer is still a second class sport in the States. and the US is the best in the world in many sports already!)

    i would like to re-iterate my praise for the progress made by the US soccer, though. i never thought Man Utd would have an American keeper.
     
  13. Soc7777777 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #13
    my point

    see i think freddie adu has the chance* (we will see) to have a GREAT impact on the american soccer program in general... because USA has always been decent at soccer and was respectable (but not ever feared)... but lately, like the last world cup, the US has developed alot of really good players that we can build a team around... but what seperates brazil from USA is the players like ranaldo and denilson and roberto carlos.. or like a raul of spain... a david beckham of england (and players like mike owen, alan sheerer)... the maradona of argentina...

    my point.... the USA has had the foundation for a great team.. but lacks the 3-4 international superstars that set apart a world cup champion from the rest of the field... we need freddie to step up and a couple others... but freddie can attract the crowds because he is such a young phenom....

    the future of american soccer is interesting... because most people debate WHEN they will be a contender for the world cup... not if...

    2006 will be an interesting year... i'd like to see them upset one great team... and have freddie be the one to distroy them (at 16 years old, or barely 17)...
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #14
    national teams are here club football is here
    | --------------------------------------------|

    you have to seperate it a bit more ...you know the german national team is having a lot of problems in the last years )but they seem to improve)


    don't forget that the USA team is playing more games than other european national teams per year... playing together as a team is important in football ...throwing 11 stars doesn't mean victory

    look at the EM: greece played 1:1 against spain yesterday..does that mean that the league in greece is as good as the league in spain ? of course not...

    has the us football improved and has to be followed: yes definatly..i'm very pleased to see that
    but going fanatic about it is a little bit early...

    but my biggest critical point is that of the system of the MLS: 10 teams is not enough for a major league in such a big country..., drop the playoff system...give teams in minor leagues a change to throw out the last one of the MLS table...and stop applying the eastern wester conference thing...
     
  15. Apple //e macrumors 6502

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    #15

    i remember blatter visiting mexico a few years ago and all the reporters asked him if he believed the fifa rankings (no one here believes mexico is #4 either - top 20 possibly)

    blatter got all mad saying "of course." iirc, his justification was that since it was a fifa ranking, it had to be true

    as for our northern neighbors, i think if they can keep up the effort at the local youth / specatator levels, they can be world champions within 12 years - based on one "golden generation" - like portugal, and not on a depth of field/tradition, like argentina.
     
  16. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #16
    argh blatter :mad: i hate him ... how could he accept that the FIFA makes an exclusive deal with anheuser-bush for the world cup 2006 in germany...no german beer then an exclusive deal with mac donalds..so now bratwurst either...
    that's like banning hot dogs at football or baseball games...

    this guy have done mroe bad to football than every man before him arghhhhh :mad:
     
  17. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #17
    it's far from certain whether adu will even be on the world cup squad for 2006.
     
  18. virividox macrumors 601

    virividox

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    #18
    at 16 i doubt he would be physically or mentally ready for the world cup. i do hope be proves me wrong.
     
  19. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #19
    i'll also add that since qualifying is an integral part of World Cup, if adu doesn't play during the qualifying (which is basically now), it's highly unlikely that he will play in the finals in Germany.

    he has a chance to be a major star in 2010, but probably not 2006. if he turns into a world class player, he'll hit his prime in 2014 and 2018, maybe even 2022.
     
  20. Soc7777777 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #20
    i disagree... look at the team that the US had 4 years ago for qualifying and then look at the team 2 years ago that did so well... yes they were similar, but some of the players that made the greatest impact joined the team just months before the world cup... beasley donovan... and others...

    so there is still a chance that there is an impact player who will join the team late.. whether freddie can do that is another story... btw after just turning 15 adu was the best player on the US U-20 team that lost to brazil 2-0 yesterday... im not saying i think freddie will be a star in 2006, but i do think he will be good enough to come off the bench for the team... he is a dangerous player (VERY FAST, great touch, can take almost anyone 1 on 1)... but who knows if he will develop into a ronaldo type player... its too early to tell, but even if you didnt consider his age and no one told you he was 15, and told you he was 19 or 18 by the way he played in the u-17 and u-20 national team matches... you would say there is a good chance for him to join the 2006 world cup teams
     
  21. FlamDrag macrumors 6502

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    #21
    There's a chance that the NHL going dark, for what may be a very, very long time, will give the MLS a chance to move in to the "major sport" category a little sooner.

    In order for the MLS to be considered an option by the elite athletes in the US, the money has to become significantly more substantial. I don't know a ton about soccer, but it seems to be that basketball guards and american football running backs and cornerbacks are the sorts of athletes who the MLS needs in it's league. The ridiculous money in the NFL and NBA boot the MLS out of the minds of many youngsters.

    Unfortunately, fans generate money to pay the players and the MLS can't get fans without the players. Round and round we go.

    Adu peaked my interest as a very causal soccer fan. He could be just the catalyst MLS needs. What the MLS needs next is a rival for Adu. America loves stories and rivalries.

    I think that MLS needs 3 major names - that is to say CHARACTERS - for it to really get some more causal fans.

    1. Adu - gotta love him, young kid/superstar.
    2. Adu-Rival - a slightly older player (relative to Adu), superstar, as likable as Adu on his team. (Scottie Pippen to Adu's Michael Jordan)
    3. AntiAdu - The player you love to hate on a rival team. Dennis Rodman, John McEnroe, et al.

    1 and 3 are the most important but 2 is good for those fans who don't want to be on the Adu bandwagon.

    IMHO America winning the world cup - not that there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening - would be devastating to the popularity of the sport in the US. If the US wins with a small fan base, it will pass by with most Americans lifting a congratulatory eyebrow.

    The US needs to get deep in the tourney a few times, to the title game once and lose by a goal, THEN the US fans might be ready to celebrate a win.

    OK, I'm rambling now, so I'll end this.
     
  22. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #22
    If nothing else I think Adu will be too small in '06. US soccer is still not nearly as physical as football in the rest of the world, and I don't think Adu is up yet for the abuse he would subjected to.

    FlamDrag,
    I understand what you are saying, but basketball, and especially american football players, lack the stamina to play football at the pro level. Two 45 min halves w/no stoppage in play (save for injury) on a field that is 70 yards wide and 120 yards long. Not to mention that, by comparrison, extreme lack of substituions.

    Personally, as long as soccer in American stayed popular enough to keep going and keep making strides I would be happy. But I never want it to get as big as the NFL, NBA, or MLB. I've had enough of egotistical, showboating, over-paid prima donnas. Give me more people who play because they love the game.

    I disagree. I think the US winning the Cup would do wonders for the sport. Much of the current the popularity of the sport is due to the dominating sucess of the women's national team. Not to mention the growing success of the men's team. The last Wolrd Cup was the most coverage I've ever seen in the US. And it got more and more media attention the better the US did. If the US woulda tanked everyone would have forgotten about the tourny before it was even over (save for the die hard fans).


    Lethal
     
  23. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #23
    real madrid is playing MLS all-stars in Sept. for the 25th Santiago Bernabeu Cup. that should be interesting...
     
  24. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #24

    Yes. I wonder what kind of pressure Real is feeling? I mean, if they lose to American's they might as well disband and take up knitting. :D


    Lethal
     

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