Freedom of Information

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #1
    http://www.alternet.org/story/22289/

    I don't think I'm going to enjoy living in the New American Century.
     
  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
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    Yahooville S.C.
    #2
    George and the Republicans with help from Democrats have removed Freedom, replaced it with the Police State where any excuse is used to take more liberty and freedoms from the individual and give it to the corporations,i mean govt who is ran by corporations. Freedom & Liberty are becoming just a Lie under this administration of spin and police state. Meanwhile the border is still left open. Everything they are doing are just excuses to create a Fascist State. Freedom is almost dead in America. People better start paying attention. Nazi Germany went down this same road.
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #3
    "Freedom & Liberty are becoming just a Lie under this administration of spin and police state."

    "...this administration..."? Hell's bells, the only difference between this bunch and previous administrations (note plural; I'm not picking on Clinton) is the technology.

    Bureaucrats want round pegs in round holes; it makes their lives easier. Congress passes laws for bureaucrats to enforce. Whatever tool is available for enforcement will be used to the greatest extent possible.

    Just think of 2257 as sandpapaer...

    'Rat
     
  4. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    So you're okay with this?
     
  5. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    LaLaLand, CA
    #5
    If you aren't, you support terrorism. ;)
     
  6. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #6
    skunk, that's a rather ignorant question to ask of one who has foamed at the mouth, on this forum, about the TSA and the Patriot act as I have. This garbage is just more of the same governmental pushiness and snoopiness.

    Again (and again and again): I do not see it as obligatory that one rants against some governmental egregiousness of whatever sort, as one attempts to analyze certain things that are done or said. Overall, my view is that the primary mission of government is to increase its power over the citizenry--because that's what's been going on throughout my lifetime. I don't like it, okay? Is that enough?

    IMO, the only difference between Dems and Reps is the particular arenas in which they "play" at extending governmental controls.

    Heinlein was the first I've known to say, "Government does not exist for the benefit of the governed."

    'Rat
     
  7. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
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    Republic of Ukistan
    #7
    Much better :) It just looked like your disengagement was overtaking your outrage for a moment there. Just checking. This is, sfter all, a potentially far-reaching power which has (to me) completely unacceptable aspects of a police state. Anger is not optional.

    There were plenty before Heinlein, including many of your Founding Fathers, and probably several Greeks and Romans too, though I can't think of a particularly apt quote offhand.

    I prefer you in Grumpy Old Man mode than as a Resigned Cynic. ;)
     
  8. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
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    Terlingua, Texas
    #8
    skunk, lotsa folks have expressed the general idea; Heinlein was more succinct. :) Ya always gotta appreciate a pithy one-liner, unless you're the target and get pithed off. :D

    Basically, I hear "Government" and I tend to get grumpy. I'm rarely "resigned" so much as I've always been wired up to ask WHY about individual acts/statements. My mother once commented that asking why was an indication of middle-age; my response was that I'd been middle-aged since kindergarten. Built into my asking why is the ancient cui bono?

    One way I guess I differ from folks here is that I don't see the point in hollering, "Evil! Evil!" People do stuff for personal or corporate advantage, often to the detriment of others. I'm less ready to accept malice aforethought, which is why I talk about "That's what people do." I've mentioned before, I think, that it seems to me that when you have people in their forties and fifties who will spend money to attend seminars on Ethics, there's a national problem--and I don't have a clue as to how you turn that around...

    As far as extension of governmental power, I've always believed that there are those who just flat-out want power over others. I don't see Bush or Kerry in that light. I do view people like Cheney or Rumsfeld and the Clintons that way. But, that's just opinion...

    :), 'Rat
     
  9. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #9
    It was only a matter of time before this happened. The internet is far to free a place. I mean, you can still find forums where you can use any language you want, imagine that.

    How long before the entire internet is censored to protect other peoples kids who can't keep them off the internet!!!

    ;) It's working for TV.
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
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    Terlingua, Texas
    #10
    From the article: "Kind of makes it obvious why the DOJ is having a hard time dealing with terrorism, doesn't it?"

    First off, the twits never have defined "terrorism" in any sensible way. The way things are going, anything other than low db-level PC speech is terroristic. So if you can't truly do anything much to prevent an act which is in the classical sense terrorism, you might as well go hunt for easier targets.

    I remember discussions about how our industrial capacity outdid the Nazis. Part of the reason was the relative lack of bureaucratic red tape in getting materiel ordered, produced and shipped.

    In the last forty or so years, we've certainly learned from other countries' bureaucracies how to slow down business activity. It doesn't matter if it's a highway or a housing project: "Not so fast! Do a study! Get a permit!" Give'em another decade or so and we can achieve the bureaucrats' dream of no activity at all.

    It'll be far more peaceful, then...

    :), 'Rat
     
  11. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    If the highway or housing project was going smack through your ancestral home, I bet you'd be in the NIMBY chorus, too. :rolleyes:
     
  12. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Jul 16, 2002
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    Palookaville
    #12
    Odd, didn't we just have a long thread about how it was too easy for the government to take private property?

    Must have been another board.
     
  13. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
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    #13
    Oh, do try to keep up, IJ! :rolleyes: (mandatory)
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Jul 4, 2003
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    Terlingua, Texas
    #14
    What's "easy" got to do with anything, IJ?

    I'm talking about the meddling in one's daily bidness: The more that bureaucrats become involved--whether a flower seller needing a license to stand on a street corner, or a car-repair garage--the longer it takes to go from an idea to operation. Whether city, state or federal level, trying to get even a dumb decision out of a bureaucracy takes forty forevers...

    About the only place where goobermint seems to find fifth gear is when they're screwing around with personal liberty and snooping into your private affairs.

    'Rat
     
  15. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Location:
    Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
    #15
    mom-and-pop
    This is funny to me.
    An old gray-haired couple in front of a computer talking about double-penetration.
    Ha

    There is no such thing as government/governed equilibrium. A government's goal is to govern. No matter how small it starts out, it will grow until it inhabits every facet of its citizens lives. You hire professional lawmakers and they are going to make laws. Even regular people can't leave well enough alone, someone speeds past them on the highway or takes their parking spot and they say "there should be a law." We started out in this country with a few articles on freedom and liberty and now we have laws on how many pets you can own and how loud your car stereo can be. There comes a point where you simply have too many layers of shingles on your roof and you have to tear them off and start again or the whole thing will fall in on your head. It's a hot, messy, dirty business but it has to be done.
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #16
    You tell me... it seemed you were griping about the difficultly of getting things done, like building roads. All those studies. On the other side of the page, I was hearing about how it's too easy for the government to take our land for things, like building roads. Not enough checks and balances in the system.
     

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