Future of G4's, should i wait?

Discussion in 'Hardware Rumors' started by Navius, Mar 22, 2002.

  1. Navius macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    #1
    Hey friends...right now im sitting here waiting for my iMac 800 to arive, apparently somewhere between april and may. So all this waiting got me thinking about: Is the Imac really worth the pain? Should i just dump it and get a powerfull G4 tower? So my next move was to think about getting a tuff system that will last maybe a couple of years before i have to trash it cause is just to old, that would be something like the Dual G4...

    But getting that system will be something like 3 g's plus maybe 1 or 2 for the display. So before i sell my car and declare my self broke for this Dual G4, i would like to ask the experts what do you expect that is coming from apple regarding Towers and in general...should i wait maybe til NY to get the system or is it a good time now to do it? I know that if you wait for the perfect system you'll never get it, but some thinking can save you some money. So...will apple introduce Dual 1.8??? or Maybe switch to DDR or something that makes it better to wait for NY? cause im not waiting for SF for sure.

    Thanks a lot for you time and yout input!
    MArio
     
  2. erova macrumors member

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    Jan 18, 2002
    Location:
    washington dc
    #2
    my 2 cents....

    i think it depends on what you want to do with your machine.

    are you gonna be using final cut and photoshop (two programs that actually utilize dual processors)?
     
  3. Navius thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    #3
    how about DV?

    erova, i think you have a great point...right now im mainly a web designer...so macromedia and light adobe stuff is what im using...how ever my plans include DV and Animation in the next 6 months...so maybe some dual crap might help...but anyways...do you have predictions that will make current towers look like crap or will they survive some time??

    Mario
     
  4. Catfish_Man macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

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    Sep 13, 2001
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #4
    The current PowerMacs...

    ...are not worth buying. They are excellent machines, but they won't have the kind of lifespan you want for several reasons:

    1) PC133 ram is on its way out. Pretty soon buying PC133 is going to be like buying EDO is now. Expensive, because no one makes it anymore. Right now it's only used on Macs and <1000 dollar PCs.

    2) USB is also on its way out. USB2 is quickly replacing it.

    3) The G4 was meant to compete with the P3, it did a good job at that, but it can't stand against a new P4 or AthlonXP (except at really Altivec heavy stuff).

    4) ATA66 is also going out of style, ATA100 is standard on most PCs, ATA133 on several, and SerialATA150 is just starting to be used.

    Wait for the G5/7470/7500 (I'm not sure which), or keep the iMac. The G5 will fix everything above, the iMac is going to stay at the current tech level for longer.
     
  5. Grokgod macrumors 6502a

    Grokgod

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    #5
    Obviously only my opinion!

    I would NOT buy a G$ right now.
    Notice I am placing a dollar sign instead of a 4 to signify apples newest innovation, " higher prices, less respect"
    I find this rather funny. Spread the love.

    When you buy a computer its always best to purchase on the top of the wave. In order to get a computer that will last and to get the work you need to accomplish out of it!

    Right now, is NOT the time to purchase a g4 tower.
    For $3000 dollars the technology in the powermacs are extremely poor! The subsystems have to be updated to the 2 year old standard of DDRam. This should be the next step in the evolution in g4's, hopefully this change in the board to accomadate the faster ram will lead the way to the G5.

    I am not saying to wait till the G5, as you said, you can wait forever for the greatest system. Yet, DDRam is a must and if you purchase now you will regret that decision because once the ram bottle neck is addressed the CPU will finally be fed properly and this will be a dream come true.

    Also with the DDRam upgrades there will be speedbumps and this will only help.

    SO, I say WAIT and send the message to APPLE that this old tech needs to be phased out. As long as Apple can keep selling these antiquated tech models, the longer they will continue to do so. The markups on this old tech is incredible, who the hell wants old pc 133 ram, NOBODY! Only apple, its DDRam across the board for high end compters. Imagine buying tons of pc133 ram at pennies a unit and selling at hundreds of dollars.
    And you can take that to the bank!

    I have an iMac that I use for internet surfing and various simple tasks and it does well. If you plan to use your iMac for simple everyday task, I would say stick with it and get your unit.
    I got mine> :) I dig it, to no end.
    Great LCD screen, sharp and bright!
    Osx runs at an almost acceptable level with intermediate lulls that tempt my ire. Thats when i get up and tell myself " Hey you have to walk sometime, get some coffee!"

    But if its a choice tween a iMac and a g4 with DDr because of money.
    Then you must wait to get the one unit that will do everything for you.
    There are things that my iMac will never do, thats why i have my dual g4, or dual (cough cough) athalon systems.

    I would say that your intent and what you want to create, produce or use the machine for would be the mitigating factor in your decision.

    Hope that this was helpful.
     
  6. erova macrumors member

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    Jan 18, 2002
    Location:
    washington dc
    #6
    a different response...

    grokgod and catfish bring up good points from a hardware/technology issue.

    now as a web/flash designer, i'm going to give you my experiences using the same programs you use...

    i think it is safe to say that taking a 2 meg PSD and slicing it into gifs, then editing the html in dreamweaver (or whatever) does not require the latest greatest technology.

    i have a 533 i bought a year ago, and photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, and illustrator run absolutely perfect. you simply don't need a dual 1.8 gig to crunch a 14 k web graphic, and i'll argue that to anyone here you says you do.

    i also have a dual gig here at the office that i wouldn't have asked for except it's not my dime, and when i runnin dreamweaver, photoshop and flash, i can't find a damn bit of difference than on my 533.

    i've also edited quick, two minute DV clips to import as bitmaps into flash and never had any problem on my 533. however, when my job asks me to crunch 15 minute video, yes, i'll be glad i have the dualie.

    bottom line, in my opinion, is buy what will get your job done and get you paid. hell, i saw a blue faced 733 (originally 3500) on macworld or something for like 900 bucks, and i think i could definitely build interactive, engaging, user friendly web sites with that pig sittin on my desk.

    just a different perspective guys.
     
  7. erova macrumors member

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    Jan 18, 2002
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    washington dc
    #7
    Re: a different response...

    DOH! i meant macmall or outpost, obivously not macworld.
     
  8. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

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    down in Fraggle Rock
    #8
    well soundslike everyone has made all the points but ill let you know what my thinking was.

    i was looking at buying an imac or low end powermac. my goal was to allow myself to wait another year or 2. i want the big 3k system at some point but as many said now is a bad time to buy. so i figured a trendy lil imac or powerful but low end powermac would do the trick. they would have about a 2-3 year lifespan cost about 1800 and allow me to sit and wait for the next generation chip.

    while the imacs got a price bump the powermacs got a price dump. apple doubled the discount on powermacs, and maintained the ram and lcd discounts. low ened powermac is cheaper imac is trendier and smaller.

    also if you dont buy from apple you can still get an imac at the pre-price hike price.

    price is the same so get which ever form factor you prefer. and use it to allow you to wait for that 3k system that will knock your socks off.
     
  9. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #9
    My 2 cents

    Buy when you are ready to buy. There will always be something better in 6 months anyway. Yes, when the G5s (I'm assuming) come out they'll have DDR, higher FSB, etc. But will all that really make that big of a difference in what you are doing? Does it matter if Photoshop renders a filter .5 seconds faster? ;)

    I think the standing rule for buying a new computer is the best rule. But a new computer when your current computer fails to meet your needs.

    I'm buying a new dual gig G$...er 4... 'cause my current rig no longer meets my needs. If bigger and better comes at MWNY... oh well. The brand new Macs will surpass mine in benchmarks, but I seriously doubt if you'll be able to tell a significant difference in real world performance. What all computer makers fear is the day when consumers realize that 99% of the software out there does not tax their machine (how fast do you need Office to run?) and they don't need to upgrade.


    Lethal
     
  10. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

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    Nov 28, 2001
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    down in Fraggle Rock
    #10
    lethalwolfe is right if you dont mind buying every two years. and there are people who do just that.

    but some of us want a computer to last 4 5 even 6 years. and to do that one MUST bide their time and get something at just the right moment.

    timing is very important and anyone who thinks otherwise is either buying too often to notice or hasnt been using a computer long.
     
  11. Grokgod macrumors 6502a

    Grokgod

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    Feb 26, 2002
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    #11
    Well said LethalWolfe!

    I totally agree with the LethalWolfe, his statement is very true!

    one day there will be no upgrade to chips that will matter to the common man, I would say that that time is here in the PC world and reason why PCee sales are down, Yet i feel that OSX has created a scenario where its like stating new with an OS that demands plenty of cpu cycles to create a lot of eye candy.
    Î like a snappy OS!

    AmbitiousLemon> I dont quite see where the G$ has been lowered in price. All i see is a price increase by about $300 dollars in the ultimate G$ . Please explain your perception so that my meager mind can comprehend! ")

    Should i say it again loud and clear for all to hear!

    G$ G$ G$ G$ G$ G$
     
  12. erova macrumors member

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    Jan 18, 2002
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    washington dc
    #12
    price increase?

    the dual 800 was 3500, the dual gig is 3000
     
  13. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #13
    rendering speed

    Even if you plan on getting into DV and animation, if your projects aren't that big, you really won't benefit that much by the extra hardware and cost. If you plan on moving solely over to DV and animation, I would recomend the bigger system, but if you're going to just play around, get in now, start learning it and in a year or 2 when prices come down, and you see yourself using more and more processor time, upgrade.

    You'll be able to use the iMac for many years to come, and its always best to have an extra machine if you're doing rendering, because no matter what you have, you're still going to be waiting around for something to finish.

    my 2¢
     
  14. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #14
    Hmmm... I'm not quite sure how what I said equates to buying a new rig every 2yrs.

    IMO, there is no "right moment", there are "wrong moments" (like right before MacWorld), but there are no "right moments" 'cause 6 months later yer system goes from Top of the Line Mac to bottom rung. Personally, I never buy top tier/first gen tech. You pay a premium for small, if at all noticable, real world gains. If I had the cash at the time I would have snatched up a dual 800 when the dual gigs were released. But I didn't, so I couldn't.

    Like I said in my last post, wait until your current machine no longer meets your needs and then start shopping. Once you find a machine you think works make sure no MacWorlds are around the corner and then buy it.

    Honestly, this is one aspect where I prefer PCs, 'cause companies on the PC side don't keep their roadmap such a darn secret. It's nice knowing 'bout PC tech months (and in some cases a year or more) before it hits the shelves. None of this "maybe at MWXX we might get a hardware update" crap.

    /minirant.


    Lethal
     
  15. Jookbox macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #15
    yeah, you're in a tough bind. if you're serious about what you said, you will outgrow that imac *very* fast. ignore people that claim the 15" inch screen is adequate, it's just way too small and the resolution is too low. as far as i know you cannot connect an external monitor either.

    but - the only problem is that the current powermacs just aren't worth buying. hopefully this will change in the summer. if you do go for the powermac just get the 800. the price won't kill you, but you would need a monitor too.
     
  16. Jookbox macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #16
    Re: a different response...

    i agree with everything you say, but i would have to argue that a dual ghz runs osx *noticeably* better than a 533. as far as practical performance, you're right there's probably not much of a difference.
     
  17. dualburn001 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    #17
    oh just so you know the imac does video mirroring so you hook it up to an external monitor, but the resolution will be 1024 x 768.
     
  18. Grokgod macrumors 6502a

    Grokgod

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    #18
    yea! price increase

    The ultimate version powermac G$ ahs been increased by $300. I think the original version of the ultimate was 3899, now its 4099.
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #19
    Strangely enough, I just realized that Apple runs its business like professional wrestling. There are dedicated fans who try desperately to obtain inside information about the upcoming plans, however, the company tries desperately to keep that information secret.

    Just an odd observation.
     
  20. Dunepilot macrumors 6502a

    Dunepilot

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    #20
    Digital audio

    Also if you're thinking of using your Mac for digital audio in apps like Logic Audio, you need to bear in mind that a dual machine will be better because the application takes advantage of that.

    Whatever you get, I hope you like it
     
  21. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

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    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #21
    Re: Well said LethalWolfe!

    um... ok, but you dont have to get al rude. go to the educational store. you will find in red print over each model apple has begun doubling their discount. when you go to any apple store you will hear of a plan called the "crystal clear" promotion where they take off up to $500 on the price of a apple lcd monitor. and if you look at the ram prices you will see they are about 50% whyat they were a few months ago. apple made a big deal about chopping the prices of ram on all their powermacs, it was on the front page of the appl website soon after the new powermacs were announced. these are the promotions and discounts i was refrring to, please dont be rude.

    lethal: your revised statement makes much more sense. and if apple never made revolutions id completely agree with you. but i woudl say there is a "right time" to buy a mac.

    if you bought a bw g3 then you missed your mark because apple was about to releaase the g4 w/ wltivec. if you bought a computer in the first year after the g4 you were set. that same computer woudl be good today (and notice it is not until osx came out that the original g4 folks got itchin for more speed). hoonestly i think we are both right but we are looking at things on two different scales. im looking at the long term. while you are looking at the short term. yes there will always be a better machine 6 months down the road (unless you look at the current powerbook, where is the update?) but there are sometime BIG updates. and those are the ones that matter on the long term. like i said i dont necessarily think we are different sides here. you are saying dont buy just before a macworld (lil update) and im saying dont buy just before a big update (mac world also but not every macworld maybe on every few years).

    personally i think we are on the brink of another big update to the pro desktop line. im not sure what it will be exactly (because as mcrain so hilariously pointed out apple is like the wwf, is it still called that?) but im think there will be a big update in the pro line in the next year to 2 years. and thats why i was in the market for something to hold me over until then.

    so do you dig what am i saying or is it all just a bunch of hot air?
     
  22. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    VA
    #22
    If you look at what the pro desktops in the PC world have to offer, you'll realize that Apple has a ways to go before the catch up. And I'm not just talking MHz here. SDRAM, bus speed etc.

    You have to know Apple sees this too. I can't imagine it will be all that long before something comes out.

    The reality is you might have to wait until 2003, but then again it might be July.

    Its a crap shoot either way.
     
  23. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #23
    Re: Re: Well said LethalWolfe!

    Yeah, I see where yer comin' from. And as I was typing my 2nd post I started thinkin' we were lookin' at the same thing, just from different perspectives.

    I agree that Apple's top line is going to get a big facelift w/in the next 12 months. But the kicker is I'm not in a position to wait for it. If someone could tell me, w/o a doubt, that the G5s (in all their totally upgraded glory) would be out in July I'd probably find a way to limp along until then. But some say July, some say Jan, and some say when hell freezes over. :p So, rumors be damned I'm buying my G4 now. :)
     
  24. crumbz macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    #24
    Good for you. Mac OS Rumors has some interesting stuff from MWT, but then again they're just rumors.
    Me, I'm waiting for the next PB.
     
  25. Navius thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    #25
    darn it! i love you guys...

    Well my friends...after reading a lot of text about this topic this are my last 2 cents from creating this discussion: before i jump to what i learned from y'all...this is for me the bottom line:

    In life there are 2 things when it comes to purchasing things: 1-You can always get the model with almost no special features and always comes at a good price and works...lets talk about a toyota for example, and 2-You can always get the BEST freacking toy in the world that comes with EVERYTHING (that 95% of the time is stuff you don't actually use/need) but it is always the expensive one....in this case a BMW M3... so bottom line: IF YOU GOT THE MONEY (and NEED) GET THE TOP MODEL, if not, think smart!

    Here is what i got from all of you...
    -True that G4's need a complete overhaul in the next 6-12 months and they will get it for sure.
    -True that Web Design makes no real difference when using a cool imac or a dual G4....
    -True that you need some Horse Power to render Animation an Video...

    but to be honest i'm no Kyle Cooper on DV or a Pixar animator...(Although some day i'll get there ;) ) so i think for now 800 mhz from the almighty Imac should do the work...and maybe by the time im flying with DV and Animation... Dual 2'gs G5's will be out and will cost 2500 or something...and also the all beautiful 23'' HD Flat panel will cost around $150 :D ...so for now let's pray that the Imac can help us all cheap bastards take it to the level where we actually NEED the power of a Tripple G6...

    Thanks a lot for ALL and everyone of your replys...there is definetly nothing like hearing different perspectives and others thoughts....

    I hope this also helped some others like me that are trying to squeezz as much bucks as posible from our budget...
    And thanks again to y'all

    Mario...
     

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