G4 800Mhz for PCI Macs?!!

Discussion in 'Hardware Rumors' started by Arcady, Jul 8, 2002.

  1. Arcady macrumors 6502

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    #1
    I just received the August issue of MacWorld magazine, and I found this on page 8. It looks like Sonnet has managed to build an 800MHz G4 upgrade for the old 7300-9600 PCI Macs. There is no info about this on their web site, and they have not replied to my questions about it. I thought this would be a cool upgrade for my old 9600. Hopefully they solved the six slot issue with G4's in this upgrade. I have attached a scan I made of the advertisement.

    What do you all think about upgrading a 9600 with one of these, if I already have USB, FireWire, ATA/100, etc installed. Do you think any of the other upgrade companies will come out with something this fast now? The other guys fastest G4 upgrades are still 450MHz.
     

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  2. dongmin macrumors 68000

    dongmin

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  3. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #3
    WTF!! :eek: :confused:
    Where did you get that price tag from?
     
  4. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #4
    At they end of the day, it's fun, but a losing proposition. That card will likely cost $800. Your 9600 is prolly worth $350 on eBay.

    That's $1150. If you are (or know) a student, you can pick up a new PowerMac 733 tower for $1249 (I don't know if this config is still available).

    For $99 dollars you can be current. If you go the upgrade route, you'll still be stuck on a 50MHz bus, using 60ns RAM.

    As much as I love 9600s (I had 3 at my desk until February), their time really has passed.

    I suggest you unload the 9600 before OS9 falls further out of favor, because the machine's value will diminsh with it.
     
  5. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #5
    $800 to upgrade your current G4 (AGP) workhorse to 1GHz... For many people that will be a lot easier then shelling out $1600+ to get a new tower. Granted, it won't be [quite] as fast as the latest generation tower, but it should extend the life of the tower you have a few more years. Now, if they manage to include the L3 cache on the processor card, THAT would make it an even better bargain.

    BTW, Nispy, a 733MHz tower is not all that current. Considering how they have them in the pre-QS case, you are looking at a system that is already well over a year old.

    While I wouldn't put an upgrade in a G3 blue or older, I would place it into one of the AGP G4 towers. With that tower, you can still upgrade the video, pile in 1.5GB of memory, and have up to four 120GB hard drives (160GB if you add the right card). Put them on a RAID card, and you have a stable, powerful workhorse.

    Hell, IF I hadn't sold my G4 tower to help get the Harley, I would consider the GHz upgrade for it.
     
  6. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #6
    The poster is asking about a 9600, and the totals just don't make economic sense. To put an $800 card into that machine, vs selling that machine, adding the $800, and buying a brand new G4 outright...not much of a choice.
    Actually, they're still available brand spanking new, QuickSilver, built last week, but configured for .edu purchasers only. See the Apple education store. You can have one built to order perhaps through August 12th. Mine was a whopping $1143.
    Based on the rumored priced of $800, and what I'm hearing about the abilites of DDR to improve the performance of the G4 chip, I doubt you'll make that same statement next week.
     
  7. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    Apr 16, 2002
    #7
    I think it's about damn time the processor upgrade companies come out with a upgrade greater than 500MHz! I've been waiting forever!

    With that said, to break the 500Mhz barrier, it HAS to be a 744/745X chip to get clock speed that high. All of the processor upgrade companies have been using 7400/7410 up to this time and have stagnated in terms of any new products. I still think that there is a large market for these upgrades, and they will do well. The PM G4 and Pismo markets have been revived lately by Powerlogix, and Sonnet has now entered the fray.

    I think it is time for XLR8 to do something substantial if they do not want to lose ground. I remember XLR8 referencing a DP upgrade for 50 MHz bus comps, so maybe they can hold their own with DP 500 vs. single 800. They have a lot of money invested in MPe upgradable ZIF, so I don't think that they'll take the BGA (Ball grid array) G4 spec just yet. Sonnet has traditionally offered non-upgradable daughtercards so this makes sense for them.

    -New Market Directions-

    Sonnet - Non-Upgradable Single Processor Daughtercards for 7x00, 8x00, 9x00, Clones and G4

    Powerlogix - Pismo Uni-N G4 upgrades, Non_Upgradable Single Processor Daughtercards for AGP G4

    XLR8 - ?? DP for 7x00, 8x00, 9x00, Clones and maybe something else?

    We will fully know about the upgrade companies offernings at or shortly after MWNY. I would prefer DP over a single fast proc, becuase of OS X (yes it can be run on old macs). Sonnet is simple, but I want to be able to OC my processor/bus.

    I would say the 800 MHz would cost ~$500 to start off.
     
  8. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #8
    It may change, but I've heard from on high that the 800 MHz for modern machines is $650+, so the daughtercard might drive the 7,8,9, x00 upgrade to $800.

    There are also some hurdles to address as far as bus multipliers go, with only ~50MHz to work off. That's a 16x bus multiplier to get an 800MHz G4 into one of these!

    A full XLR8 G4 MPe setup with 2 450 G4s was $1149 before they disappeard. That's a big nut to drop into an Old World machine!
     
  9. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #9
    DON'T go quoting from the educational site. I am talking about systems that can be purchased by ANYONE! "Configured for education only" doesn't count in the scheme of things. Compare normal retail to normal retail. :rolleyes:

    Many home users that purchased one of the G4 towers that the upgrade works in, don't have, or cannot justify spending the money on a new tower, when they can upgrade the processor to current speeds at a fraction of the cost.

    The processor upgrades are very viable options for more then a few people. One of the main reasons for getting a tower is because you CAN do more then just a few upgrades to it over the years. It still works out to be cheaper then selling what you have and getting an entirely new tower. :p
     
  10. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #10
    Why don't you look at the Sonnet Duet processor upgrade (dual 500MHz processor card)?? Currently, that is listing for $600. I would wager that the price of that will drop when the new cards come out (as things tend to do). Even when the Duet was brand new, it was selling for ~$1000 (If I recall correctly, it wasn't over that).
     
  11. madamimadam macrumors 65816

    madamimadam

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    Jan 3, 2002
    #11
    Do you reckon one of those would fit in a cube?

    I want to get a Cube but only if I can make it an upgrade from my 533
     
  12. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    Jan 19, 2002
    #12
    Beacause this thread is about a 9600, and only XLR8 has solved this issue of having two PCI controllers work correctly with a G4 processor.

    Buying a Sonnet may be cheaper, but if you lose half of your PCI slots, why use a 9600 at all?
     
  13. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    Jan 19, 2002
    #13
    Considering the number of people here who admit to being in their teens, and the number who act like they are, there is no reason not to mention the .edu store.

    Furthermore, a disproportionate number of those looking to do things cheaply are students. If the poster is a student, or knows one who won't be buying a Mac for themselves this year, having this price might save them a few hundred dollars.

    I'm sorry that making all information available disproves one of your arguments, but it makes more sense for the buyer to have all their options presented.

    You can always add me to your ignore list when your tire of my factual correctness.
     
  14. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #14
    Yes, there will be upgrades available for the Cube running at up to 1GHz. One of the articles which announged these upgrades showed a prototype in a Cube!
     
  15. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #15
    Hey Tipsy, the Duet card is for the G4 systems, not the 9600 and those like. :rolleyes: It works in the AGP and Gigabit models. Honestly, I wouldn't do all that much for upgrades on anything older then a G4 AGP tower.
     
  16. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #16
    Well...bubba...did you read the first post?

    The one from the guy with the 9600? The guy who is looking to upgrade his 9600? That's why alot of us have been talking about 9600s.

    Got it, sparky?
     
  17. Arcady thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Actually, I can buy from the educational store, and I have considered a low-end current G4 tower. There are several reasons I might want to keep my 9600, including the massive investment in the follwing:

    1.5GB RAM in the machine already
    Three 5.25" drives installed internally (plus a Zip drive), which would not all fit in a new G4.
    ATA/100, FireWire, USB and 10/100 ethernet cards installed.
    Many SCSI devices that would require a SCSI card on a G4.

    I am running OS X on it (it has an ATI Rage 128 Pro from a B&W G3 in it, so OpenGL works.) I do not play games, so I don't need anything better - it actually plays a DVD okay in OS X. I would just like a speed boost. I have used a G4/450 card in it and the speed wasn't too bad - the current G3/500 card seems a bit slower. I had to switch to a G3 card because of the six slot issue, which I understand only XLR8 has fixed, but I am hoping Sonnet (or anyone else who makes 800MHz+ G4 cards) has fixed. I need all six slots. (Yes I know that I wouldn't need them all in a G4, but I also don't get onboard SCSI, serial, and ADB on a G4.)

    BTW, I already have a PowerBook G4, so this is just a secondary machine for dealing with older equipment like zip disks and syquest carts.

    Thanks
     
  18. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #18
    I was in your exact situation in about February.

    I managed to part out my 9600, with very similar bits for $1100. I bought the QS 733 for about that, and spent a little more on memory. The thing that made it worthwhile for me was the problems I had with Unsupported X (not speed, but booting, firmware, and ROM).

    One of the most important points I think I have made, is that the 9600 still has value now, as a used machine. Even with an upgrade card, I don't think you'll do so hot a year from now. I have tried installing Jaguar on the Old World machine I have left, but I'm sure it will entail more hassle.

    If you do go my suggested route, heres what you can expect to reap from the 9600:
    11 DIMMs * $30 = $330
    9600 G3/500 128/?GB with Zip & CD ROM = $450
    ATI Rage 128 with DVD decoder = $90
    FireWire & USB cards = $40
    SCSI DVD Player = $25

    Right there, you should be able to eBay $935 out of the machine. This really closes the gap. You can add vanilla SCSI to the new G4 for $49, 1.5GB RAM for $200 (not through Apple) keep you ATA & NIC card, still have a slot open for ???. All the while staying under your approximate budget. It is a little more work, but you'd still have a viable desktop in a coupla years.

    Just a thought...
     
  19. dekator macrumors regular

    dekator

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    #19
    er, sorry but Yikes ?

    Does anyone have an idea whether the PCI upgrade would also work in a G4/PCI. I own one and it is a wonderful work horse. A little speed boost would be nice (currently at 400GHz). Bus speed and all are there...so.

    BTW, are you serious about the 800$ (!) ?
     
  20. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    #20
    Re: er, sorry but Yikes ?

    There are two kinds of upgrades being discussed here, one for 73-9600 type machines, which involve a daughtercard, and another for processor upgradeable machines.

    The daughtercard type will be more expensive, as it consists of the processor, as well as the PCB to interface with older style machines (at slower bus speeds). These are, I'm told likely to be introduced at '$1 per MHz'. Prices may go wild based on demand, or a lack thereof.

    The processor only upgrades are likely to cost more like .66¢ pre MHz, as the R & D and manufacturing cost will be lower.

    Again, this is just what I've heard from a little birdy (about a month ago, when these things were just press launching).
     
  21. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #21
    Re: er, sorry but Yikes ?

    400Ghz!?! :p Sheesh! I wish! :D
     
  22. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #22
    Alright kiddies, the Sonnet processor upgrades are here (shipping next month). The 800MHz model is listed at $499.95 and the 1GHz model is listed for $699.95. You can install them into a Cube with an installation kit (for a paltry $29.95). You can use them with either OS 9.x or OS X.

    See it all on their web site...
     
  23. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    Apr 16, 2002
    #23
    Looks like I was right on with that price estimate. :)

    I'm excited about that trio card! A great idea, a great company, and a fair price. My s900 will have more slots open now.
     
  24. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

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    #24
    Considering how Apple has not made any tower speed bump announcements, this is now a very viable option for people with older towers and cubes.

    Those of you with the .5GHz cubes, can not go up to a full GHz... :D
     
  25. drastik macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #25
    I'll give you this Alpha, I am right on it. I wanted a new tower, butnow I'll just pop in the upgrade. I love my AGP anyway, just like I love my pismo (still waiting for some user experience on the PIsmo G4 upgrade as well):D
     

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