G5? Not Quite...

Discussion in 'MacRumors News Discussion (archive)' started by arn, Jul 23, 2002.

  1. arn
    macrumors god

    arn

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    #1
    On Jul 22, Motorola released the PowerPC MPC8560--the latest version of its e500 processor, a communications chips which also bears the name G5. Note, this is not the same class of processor used in Macintosh computers.

    The chip, however does incorporate a DDR SDRAM memory controller as well as a RapidIO interconnect.

    RapidIO is a high-performance "interconnect" technology that is in competition with Hypertransport. Of interest, Apple is a member of the Hypertransport consortium, whose technology is also used in NForce2
     
  2. macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #2
    Embedded markets?

    This is the G5 Motorola chips for Embedded Markets right? There is no Altivec as well which leads me to believe that the "Powermac G5" will be of a similar core but with Apple specific functions. At any rate good news because this means the G5 should be no later than Q1 next year!
     
  3. macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Re: Embedded markets?

    Not only is it embedded - it is specifically for communications. There is no way this will be used in a Mac. It does have a SIMD processor but from the Motorola specs it does not sound as sophisticated as Altivec.
     
  4. macrumors 65816

    Stike

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    #4
    This leads to the conclusion that:

    - this polish roadmap of the Moto Chips may contain some true stuff (G5+?)
    (see the G5+ Thread here)

    - Apple may show NO NEW Powermacs until MWSF, because the gap between now an JAN 03 is too small to produce a whole new Pro Line. And I heard the stores are still full with the current pro line. Right?
     
  5. macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #5
    Maybe the next generation Mac will be a super-fast router :p

    Either Apple's going to stick with the G4's for a while more, Motorola actually has the desktop G5's going, and we'll see them within another 6 months, or Apple's going to switch to using the IBM chips. The only thing is that Apple put so much pressure on AltiVec, it would go to waste without G4's or G5's, unless IBM put in an altivec unit with their chips, but that's very unlikely...
     
  6. macrumors 65816

    Stike

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    #6
    I thought Altivec is a trademark of Moto?

    This would be the scenario, to quote Steve Jobs: "...we like to have options." With some options, Apple COULD switch to another platform.. or not? IBM, AMD anyone?
     
  7. macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    It is my understanding that Rapid IO is a processor to Chipset bus and Hypertransport is a bus used by the chipset.

    I could be wrong, but I believe that RapidIO is not a competitor with Hypertransport.

    As stated at The Hypertransport Consortium
    HyperTransport™ technology is optimized for chip-to-chip interconnects and is designed to move data over short distances between chips in a system

    Also of interest is this Hypertransport overview pdf

    The pdf shows various implementations of Hypertransport... Many are similar to this...

    CPU --- host bus --- Memory Controller --- Hypertransport --- AGP

    ... where the host bus could be anything, such as RapidIO. RapidIO and Hypertransport can co-exist quite nicely since they a designed for different purposes.



    .....ffakr.
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    what makes you guys so certain that the G5 will come out MWSF 2003?

    I mean the new Power Macs didn't come out at this years MWNY like all of you said they would.

    why would apple wait until January when all of you rumor maniacs would allready know everything there is to know about the new PMs before they come out. That kinda ruins the point of even having an expo.

    Apple will surprise you with new Power Macs when you least expect it.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

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    #9
    You are an IDIOT if you are still convinced Apple can only introduce new machines at an expo.. WHAT DOES IT TAKE???? You fu*king morons piss me off! We are all pretty sure there will be a new Powermac later next month and the only thing keeping Apple from shipping a G5 is simple... YOU HAVE TO HAVE THEM FIRST BEFORE YOU CAN SHIP THEM!!!

    -However, since we know Moto is still producing the router types of these 85xx chips, and we know that Apple wouldn't let them ruin their surprise, .. it is possible they also have been moving on with production of the desktop 85xx chips and could be in process of supplying them to Apple as we speak... we have know way to know either way because Apple wouldn't let that get out.

    All the speculation that G5's are not to show til next year are all based on horsesh[t.. we all *should* know that. All this rumor crap is all based on absolutely nothing but ''well i heard this'' and it's getting old.. so who knows, but DON"T be an idiot and think that Apple wouldn't ship a G5 just because it's not an expo.. we should all know better by now.
     
  10. macrumors regular

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    #10
    3ghz

    Pentium is about to release 2.8ghz...and they will lower the price of all their earlier chips, and by the end of the year...they are planning to release 3ghz during the holiday season buying season...

    I think that 1.6ghz powermac should be release now or we will be wait behind.

    wait! I can get a dual 2.4ghz pentium for the same price of high end Mac...with more powerful graphic card!!

    I am switching!!!! GOOD BYE MACCCCC!!
     
  11. macrumors 65816

    Stike

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    #11
    Please stop flaming. And read the text AGAIN. I´ve never said Apple would hold back new products/G5 just to release them on an expo. I said that the G5 schedule from Moto (read the "G5+"-thread) on that polish site would fit with the time the MWSF would take place.

    On the other hand, I really expect new G4s to be around the corner. But that would push the G5 further away... so this is the question: What will happen next?

    If new G4s are coming, I would expect new PMacs (G5?) around early Summer 03...

    And BTW: We are here to discuss "I´ve heard that..."-Topics. This defines a rumor site. And if this is pissing you off, well... you are free to leave.
     
  12. macrumors 603

    Rocketman

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    #12
    This is a router and DSL modem chip, but is the basis for the someday G5 for Macs. A long time ago I posted that when the G5 was on routers we could BEGIN to look for it in Mac CPU's about 6 months later.

    Supporting evidence:

    1. Its been released for routers!

    2. The link to the pdf for the new Powermac closures says the motherboard is G5 ready!

    3. Consumers are anticipating it and some/many are deferring purchases for this product :(

    4. If nothing else, Steve always jumps the gun on a new chip, so he will not delay! Thank god for zealots.

    5. The site estimated Mhz at 800-1000.

    Hold on to your hats gentlemen and prepare for a Maxell tape commercial like performance. Be blown away.

    Rocketman

    [​IMG]
     
  13. macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

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    #13
    1GHz @ 1.5 volts...

    ...boost it to 1.8 like the G4 and it'll hit higher clock frequencies.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Re: 3ghz

    Enjoy. If it weren't for Wintel users, there'd be no Tech Support Jobs (at least a lot less). Wintel pays the bills.

    If all you care about is MHz, your a perfect windows user. There is a lot more to a great computer than MHz (or even raw power). If it was all about clock or even SPEC, we'd all have switched to the Alpha and Unix back around '97.
    A computer is only as good as it's ability to let you get work done. This quality is expressed in stability, quality, and user interface. You can have the fastest machine in the world, but it isn't worth a crap if you can't get any work done on it because it is GPF'ing or always getting in your way when you try and work.

    BTW, what's your performance standard? MHz? SPEC? ByteMark? Photoshop scripts? RC5? Seti? Blast? You'll get really different results depending on what bench runs on any particular processor. Why do x86 processors spank G4s in SPEC when G4s are 3X faster in RC5? What about Photoshop scores, where G4s beat P4s clocked twice as fast? ... Blast, where large genome searches are 15X faster on a PPC than an x86 PC?
    Everyone knows Altivec is just propaganda right?

    Altivec sure as hell isn't a cure for all the current PPC woes, but it goes a long way in the tasks that really need a fast CPU. I need the really intensive stuff to be fast, like the photoshop filters. I don't give 2 craps is a P4 2.8GHz runs Word code 50X faster than a Mac... because the Mac doesn't need to run Word any faster than it currently does. It already keeps up with my typing and spell checks on the fly. :)
     
  15. macrumors 6502

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    #15
    not everyone said that new PowerMacs would be released at MWNY '02
     
  16. macrumors regular

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    #16
    Dual Pentium

    You need raw power, if you are doing 3D animation and graphic craps! If I am using Word everyday...I can buy a imac and be happy...but I am not...

    I am going to the darkside...:)

    I was happy when Maya released for MAC...but no freaking hardware to run it...
     
  17. macrumors regular

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    #17
    Re: Dual Pentium

    Ciao. :rolleyes:
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    dongmin

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    #18
    If I'm not mistaken, the e500 series ("G5") have been out for a while and have been in use. So your "6 months later" hypothesis is off by a while.

    Also, the main issue with Moto have been yields, yields, yields. They may have no prob producing these "G5s" in the 800-100 mhz range. But what we need are the 1.6+ ghz variety.

    Purely speculating here (since there's no solid rumors on the G5 these days), but I'd say the G5 is another year away. They're introducing a revamped motherboard and case in August. I'd say they'll try to get more than 6 months out of the case-mobo-G4 combo.
     
  19. macrumors regular

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    #19
    Jaguar upgrade price

    I would like to remind everyone about the ongoing petition at

    http://www.petitiononline.com/Jaguar

    If you want
    - upgrade prices for existing OS X customers!
    - free upgrades for recently bought Mac's and OS X packages!
     
  20. job
    macrumors 68040

    job

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    #20
    Re: Jaguar upgrade price

    What does that have to do with the G5?
     
  21. macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #21
    Re: Re: 3ghz

    I can't hear it anymore... is it that hard for a lot of Mac users to accept that there is a world outside Apple and that is isn't all bad?

    Stop telling those tales! Of course there was a lot of support needed in the older days. Since Windows2000 times changed dramatically. My wife works with a Dell Computer (700MHz Celeron) that costed 600$ since more than 2 years now (Yes, there are people who don't like to work on a Mac!). Wonna know how many real problems she had during that time with her computer??? ZERO!!! She's knows **** about computers and it crashed maybe 5 or 6 times since then. She never had a BSOD and she runs Office, Photoshop, etc... pp.. on it. I just installed her a new graphic card last year, because the onboard video was too slow for some stuff. It was a snap, no problems either.

    Some friends of mine who are self-employed like me are only using Windows machines in their studios, so I can compare pretty well my work with what they are doing. And know what? None of them had really serious problems with their machines as well, since they use Windows2000. When you set up your system carefully in the beginning, a Windows system is usually very stable.

    I remember times when Mac users used the argument that a Mac is faster than a PC. Now that the Mac platform is so much behind on speed issues all the people say now that it doesn't matter anymore... So what?

    Even Jobs was always using the Mhz myth to point out how fast the Macs are. Now it doesn't matter anymore?

    And that thing said about the Alpha processor and UNIX is just stupid. In '97 you hardly got any of the professional standard apps for creative work for Alpha machines or UNIX. But you get all the major apps for Windows these days (excpet those that got bought by Apple lately) They are 1:1 identical and sometimes they run even smoother than on the Mac, because they are developped on Windows normally these days and then they cross-compile for the Mac.

    Tell me the difference between PS on the Mac and PS on Windows and how the OS is getting in your way then?!?!?! Or take any other app that is available for both platforms... I don't work with the OS the whole day, I work within the apps. And there I can't see any difference usually. The OS is running in the back and the most important thing is that it is stable and gives me the frame to run apps in it. Of course is the UI of Windows a nightmare, but when you got used to it there is now reason why you should be slower using it than on a Mac.

    Oh, and to refer to the PC of my wife again... To surf the internet with it is a dream (we have a high bandwidth connection). Comparing my "high-end" Macs with that old and "slow" Windows machine is embarassing, no matter which browser I use.

    A company I have a contract with is only using Windows machines (30 employees). I asked the sysad lately how much work he has with supporting the PCs and he said that it is normally almost nothing, he is normally responsible for the servers (since they are a .COM they have quite a few of them) and the support for the PCs is made by him just on request between the other stiff he has to do. Is he a liar? I don't think so...

    All those peformance standards matter! Blast and RC5 are so special that even the organisations say that a benchmark based on those numbers can't be used as comparison for real life performance. The PPC is just that fast on those things because the code fits perfectly into the cache of the processor and Altivec can go crazy then. As soon as the RAM is involved even Altivec can't pull it anymore.

    What counts is the overall performance of the system. And by the way... I want to see the benchmark where Photoshop on a Mac beats a PC clocked twice as fast that is NOT from Apple marketing department! All the benchmarks made by independent sources say the opposite.

    As a matter of fact in real world a G4 performs like a PIII at the same clock speed. Many many tests by different sources confirmed that and it is backed up by what I experienced too.

    If you would just stop to close your eyes from reality and would do the comparison yourself, instead of sticking with your fanatic opinion that Apple HAS to be better by definition, you would maybe start to understand from which direction the wind blows.

    There are users out there that need all the performance in a system they can get. And it is a fact that at the moment the PowerMacs are not able to compete with Intel/AMD systems, like it or not. The funny part is that Apple is heading for the high-end video and audio production field and so far has no competetive workstation to run the stuff on. For that stuff you need friggin' powerful equipment to keep up with the standards of the industry.

    Of course I am curious how the new PowerMacs (so if they will arrive one day) will perform finally. But also I am tempted meanwhile to try out the Windows world for my stuff, by putting a windows set up right beside and doing the performance hungry stuff on the PC, especially when the new PowerMacs turn out to be another disappointment. As soon as Apple gives me what I want and need (and not the other way around), I am back on the band waggon, but til then I invest my money probably in gear that gives me a way better performance than any Mac that is available at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong, I still hope that finally Apple can provide some decent hardware again, since I prefer the Mac as a platform (16 years user, 14 years owner of Macs), but I am at a point to ask myself if it is just fanatism to stay or if it is rational...

    Cheers!

    groovebuster
     
  22. macrumors 6502

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    #22
    man....

    It's been a long time since I've heard so much nonsense come out of someone's ass like that.

    It's easy to sit and say one thing or another about a PC and how windows works and all this, but I just can't help but laugh at it.

    blah blah blah.. my pc works .. blah blah... macs are slow... blah blah... i built a 18ghz pc for $200 blah blah..

    every mac user around has heard all of this for years.. it's just part of being a mac user... but when you build you a pc, as I have done, and really sit down and try to not get pissed off and annoyed at the error messages and conflicts, and all the microsoft crap that is built in and you have to find a way to disable this and that, so your computer doesn't tell microsoft everything you do on your computer... it just gets old.. I'm saving my money for one of the new products from Apple. I have a PC in the meantime since I sold my Pismo and it has been hell.. .. sure i can browse the net a bit faster, but is it really worth it?? nope. not when I reinstalled XP 6 times, bought a new MoBo and reinstalled again .....

    Oh and about the jaguar thing the guy is petitioning about.. get a life man... -I don't buy anything from M$, cause I just can't get myself to do it.. but from Apple? oh yeah.. I bought os X, the upgrade and I'll be getting a new mac with jag installed, so won't have to then, but what's the deal..why do you complain aboutnot getting your products and features you want, but when the come, aren't willing to reward the designers and engineers for doing it by paying the price to upgrade? that is hypocritcal if you ask me....

    and about the petition for the .mac thing -- at least make sure and do a freakin spell check on the petition before you put it online!!! ---Just tells you the morons out there trying to save a buck.
     
  23. macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #23
    Re: man....

    :D That is a nice introduction to what you wrote afterwards! ;)

    How is the stuff called you are taking? You should stop it! Drugs are no good! ;)

    So what is so funny about it? Man, I am working with Macs since 16 years! You are one of those guys who don't allow your beloved Mac to be criticized, because you can't accept the truth... Laughing is very often caused by being stuck in an embarassing situation. I tend to believe it was like that for you...

    Hmmm.... you learned to undersand the content of a text, right? Your comment makes me doubting that!

    A computer is a tool and being a mac user is not a kind of religion or cult! Reality check?

    I am a Mac user probably longer than you can spell the word c-o-m-p-u-t-e-r and I still am!

    Too bad for you that you wanted to build one yourself without knowing anything about it... I would never do that for the core system. There are companies who build me exactly the gear I want and test it before they deliver it to me. Also your own fault when you use Windows XP. For pro use Windows2000 is the better choice anyway. And that's what we were talking about here, not about a little guy trying to build his own Windows box to save some bucks.

    Again I recommend practicing the global understanding of written text.

    Do whatever you want! The reference to the web-surfing was just told to underline how slow the Mac is in general at the moment even on simple things like that!

    And again... XP is no option for most pro users anyway for a while, as far as I heared from people in my environment.

    Since you showed in an impressing way your problems to understand what you read, I don't wonder anymore, that building a PC yourself didn't work out for you, considering that you were reading the installing instructions.

    And another time I have to tell you that building a PC yourself is one of the least things you'll do when you have to work professionally with it. No guarantee and service can become very expensive easily.

    We were talking pro and not consumer in this thread here, so get it finally. That a Mac is a fine computer for consumers in most cases is out of question, but for pros count a lot more things they have to consider. One of them is the overall performance of the system in tasks where you definetely need it! There are people like that out there, believe it or not...

    Oh... and maybe you should work on your manners as well! :D

    groovebuster
     
  24. macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #24
    One more thing...

    Just to underline what I said before, read this article:

    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-945310.html

    If the mac platfom would be the best choice, no matter what, I am pretty they would have bought just Macs and not only just a few...

    Have fun reading.

    groovebuster
     
  25. macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #25
    Re: Dual Pentium

    So, you're a 3d animator?

    Well, if you're switching to windoze, then you might as well leave these boards...
     

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